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Just Another Political & Corporate Lie....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Read the reports on consumer spending and retail sales this month?

    If you did, you read how many big box retailers have beaten their forecasts.

    YEAH!!!

    NOT! It's just another lie. Here's why...these reports are based upon "Same store sales that have been in operation at least a year". So if you're JC Penny and you've closed 150 poorly operating stores and opened 10 at new locations sometime over 1 year ago, you can report your business is up as long as those remaining stores are up vs. last year!

    Even if your overall income is down! If I owned 10 stores last year and 2 of them were performing poorly and I close them, I can report the remaining 8 stores showed increased sales vs. last year...MY BUSINESS IS UP!

    "Same store sales" reports are bogus and misleading "if" retailers across the county are closing hundreds of stores. So when you read same store sales are up 4.7% for February, don't get optimistic. Consumer spending is not based upon same store sales.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  2. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Great points here.

    I used to work in Commercial Real Estate and the ol' "Same Store" trick was one of the greatest tools in the arsenal of owners looking to put the best possible face on their dog of a property.
  3. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    In Watertown, MA (the next town west of Boston) there's a mall that used to have a Bradlees in it. They sold lower priced consumer goods like clothes, TV's and appliances. They stopped performing, lost money all the time, and eventually closed. Now there's a Target there selling the exact, same type of stuff at a profit.

    According to Patriotreign's logic, we still have to mark the economy down since its not Bradlees making the profit.

    The one good thing about all recessions is that they kill off all the weak performing companies and create room for the stronger ones to grow. This is what's happening now. Its not an indication that someone is lying to you. No, strike that, someone is lying to you. Only its not the government, its Patriotsreign.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If I remember correctly that during the epic fail Freedom Fries effort, that Target was defined as a french owned store??
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    First of all SD...it's not MY logic. It's the methodology used by corporations, Wall Street and our government. The only thing that matters from a business perspective is whether a company's INCOME is up or down. Same store sales don't tell answer that question...following me so far?

    Let's assume JC Penney had 1000 stores in 2008 and closed 200 hundred of them in 2009. If the REMAINING 800 stores showed an increase in sales, then JC Penney can report "SAME STORES SALES ARE UP" even if their total income is down...are you staying with me now sdaniels?

    In the retail industry reports, JC Penney would actually be reported as showing an increase in same store sale! That is the basis of consumer spending reports givent to us by Wall Street and our government.

    If we take this to the next level and consider than thousands of stores have been closed and hundreds of companies have gone bankrupt. So OF COURSE same store sales should be up! Everyone that used to shop at Circuit City is now shopping at Best Buy! But that doesn't mean over-all television sales are up!

    So tell me exactly what I wrote that is wrong or you don't agree with.

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    So, I guess my question is, have they always made their reports filed on this same premise or is this something brand new to the Obama administration?
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Are you comprehension challenged as well? Who said anything about the Obama administration? All I care about is knowing the truth about the state of the economy.

    To answer your question, I'm not sure how long they've used this methodology, but I am sure it was long before Obama came in. But I haven't blamed him or the democrates, have I?

    To me, they're all a bunch of scheming liars. They tell us what they think is best....for them, not for us.

    If you look at my post history, I don't think you'll find a single thread that I started that attacks Obama or even has his name in the thread title. That's not my style.

    I don't have any more love for the republican party than I have for the democrats. I'm a policy and issue guy...not a party guy.

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Is that why my wife pronounces it "Tar-jhay"?
  9. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    It wasn't the sales that did the company in, it was their bad credit and lack of money to pay for the increased interest rates. The same problem got Ames a year later. The lack of financial stability in the company going back years was something that Target lacks...same with the other discount retailers still around and who moved in when Bradlees went under.

    And it may be cheap but they had decent quality...prefer Target over Bradlees any day :cool:
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Bradlees was owned by Stop & Shop when they went under.

  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As do so I can continue to reminisce about days long ago...
  12. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Oh, simply the idea that sales figures being down is bad while sales figures being up is somehow worse. Signs of a recovery in progress are exactly that and nothing more. They're not false just because they don't indicate a completed recovery.
  13. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey


    How else would you compare it to do an "apples to apples" or "oranges to oranges" comparison? Same store sales seems to be the best of the alternatives. You can't use gross sales because the number of stores may be different and you can't use sales per store because they may have closed or opened smaller or larger stores. Using the same stores year over year would appear to be the best benchmark. Do you have a better one? IF not, you use what you have and work in any variables.
  14. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Sales per Capitia with a volumn indicator sounds pretty accurate.

    If last year I had 100 stores and sold 100 million worth of goods, I would be at 1 million sales per store.

    This year, I now only have 50 stores and sales are down to 40 million, giving me 800,000 sales per store.

    And the volume indicator would be -60 million showing the loss of volume year to year.
  15. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Actually they were spun off from the company that bought out Stop and Shop in the late 80s and were taken public in 1992. Their only relationship after the public offering was that Stop and Shop owned many of the properties that Bradlees had stores at. They were in no way owned by Stop and Shop when they went under.
  16. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    It's not that the statistical compilation is necessarily flawed. The issue is that the meaning of those stats is being misrepresented. The same store analysis is good for measuring the consistent performers, but it is not, by itself, a tool for assessing the overall recovery of the economy. For example, if the big box stores in a given area see bigger YoY sales, that's great, but not if it comes at the expense of the stores that dropped off and were thus not included in the report.
  17. PatriotsReign

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    Hey genius...my only point is that no one can judge ANYTHING based upon "same store" sales. The only way to judge retail sales is if retailers TOTAL revenue is up or down.

    Understand now?

    Tell me what you know about the pending commercial real estate collapse....PLEASE.

  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Once again, this man "Get's it"! To truly measure whether or not "Consumer Spending" is up or down, you need to look at total spending. As an economist, I am saying as fact that same store sales say nothing about the direction of the economy. As a matter of fact, they are misleading.

    Big box retailers (with the exception of Walmart) closed thousands of stores in 2008/2009, so the remaining stores BETTER be showing increased sales. And even if they are, it doesn't indicate whether or not total consumer spending is up or down.

    If I owned 100 stores last year that generated $1MM/store, my revenue would be $100MM annually. If I close 20 stores and the remaining stores generate $1.1MM each, my income would now be just $77MM. So my TRUE revenue would be DOWN $30MM annually. And that would indicate that consumer spending DECLINED even though same store sales are up 10%.

    That's it in a nutshell folks!

    The only figures that will tell us are total sales revenue for ALL retailers.

    Thank you Nikolai!!

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  19. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    So even if expenses are down, total revenue has to be bigger than the pre-crash figure or nothing's changed in your world eh? When does profit come into play? I know I'd rather have a profitable business who's revenue was less than an unprofitable one with a greater revenue; but hey, that's just me.

    As to this real estate collapse of yours, I know you've been predicting it for quite some time now. Its pretty nice to have a prediction that never has to come true because its always around the corner, eh?

    I wasn't wrong, its just still pending, aaaaannnnnyyyy day now;)
  20. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    People in CRE have been dreading the "big one" since mid-May 2007, when the CRE bubble began bursting. Brokers, owners, and buyers have been on pins and needles. It's a toxic environment right now.

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