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Jumping on the OLB bandwagon

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BRiZ, Nov 15, 2008.

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  1. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    tanked and krafty i know you guys have been lobbying for a passrushing OLB in the past few drafts, i been on the CB safety bandwagon, but this year i might have to hop on your bandwagon with ya. Its time that we get a STUD passrushing OLB BEAST that can put pressure on the QB. Im sick and tired of Vrabel, now Adalius is hurt. Our poor secondary is held at mercy because our dline doesnt consitently get pressure on the QB, and were are not even talking about being dominant in that area either.

    We absolutely need to draft a #1 stud cornerback though, but we have been patching in sorta good, and i havent looked at all the CBs yet in the draft but i think some of the elite ones will be out of our range. So im thinking STUD passrushing OLB this year.

    Of course the only guy i would absolutely draft over any position is Maualuga, but there is a fat chance in hell he will be in our range.

    So have you guys seen any studs at OLB in this draft? Mid teens where we are picking probably? I havent really checked them out yet but plan to.

    I watched a bit of Orakpo and he is a beast and would be the perfect passrusher to add to our team. But i dont know if he would convert well to OLB in coverage, AKA the Ghooolston Syndrome. Heck i would love to draft Orakpo, switch to a 4-3 with Seymour and Wilfork inside at DT's, Warren and Orakpo at the DE's with Mayo at MLB inside and Bruschi taking a hike. But we all know BB aint gunna give up his binky 3-4. You guys seen Orakpo play much what do you think about him converting to a 3-4 OLB?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The only OLB candidate who won't have a huge transition curve is Sintim of Virginia. A Selvie or Orakpo or whomever college DE is going to follow the same transition Gholston and Crable are doing now.
     
  3. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Sintim havent seen him but ill check him out. The thing with Ghooolston is he cant make the transition no matter what, because he is a scrub in space, he is not athletic enough and not able to make the transition, this was very evident scouting him before the draft. I havent seen enough of Orakpo or Selvie but if they have the athletic ability to cover in space the transition shouldnt be that difficult. I havent seen enough of them to make that conclusion yet however.
     
  4. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    We should go after JABARI GREER in Free agency.

    He's a really good CB on Buffalo. I don't think the Bills will be willing to pay him since they already drafted his replacement Leodis McKelvin, and have Terrence McGee on the other side.

    Greer is experienced but still young (26).


    and yes...this would then allow us to use our first rounder on a stud OLB like Sintim or Selvie. Our defense of the future would then be looking pretty damn good.

    Mayo, Guyton, Crable, 1st round OLB, Greer, Meriweather, Sanders, Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Ty Warren, Wilfork... I left Seymour out thinking he leaves for a bigger pay day
     
  5. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    Selvie has the athleticism and work ethic to succeed in a 34.

    Not sure if he'll still be around by our pick, but Sintim will.
     
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Selvie is a slightly more talented version of Crable of Michael Johnson of Ga. Tech. We have one on the roster now (Crable) so I can not see BB taking Selvie or Johnson in this draft. Remember also that BB does not like to "project" first round talent from positions they played in college to positions they will play in the pros. A perfect example is how he retarded the development of Merriweather last season by trying to make a college saftey into a pro CB.
    BB had a first round win or two in moving players, Mankins and Wilfork (after a year or two of spotty play) for example, but for the most part he stays true to a players college position.

    Cornerbacks:

    As I have said for years, BB craves quick twitch in his CB's. Bigger guys without the change of direction skills (notice I did not say loose hips) do not interest BB that much.

    In this draft, depending on how he runs the 40 and the 3 cone drill, the CB I see that best fits with what BB has historically gone after in this draft is Burnett of UCF. Burnett plays like a slightly bigger clone of Samuel.

    If he runs well and does great in the 3 cone drill, Burnett in the 3rd should be a lock for us.
     
  7. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Burnett right now is #1 among three CBs I like. Was very high on him last draft along with Wheatley. I'm hoping for only solid but unspectacular workouts from him which ought to keep him that round three range, allowing us to draft other positions in rounds one and two. In terms of playing the position, he's exactly the type of CB that BB covets. In addition, he's a heck of a returner.
     
  8. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Good point, I forgot to mention that as well.
     
  9. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    If we go OLB, I think Cushing USC would be our guy. He's a versatile lb.
    Would allow us to use A.Thomas as our pass-rusher.
     
  10. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With the signing of OLB Darrell Robertson to the Practice Squad, I wouldn't get too set on expecting BB to draft an OLB in 2009.

    OLB: Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, Vince Redd, Darrell Robertson, Gary Guyton.
    ILB: Jerod Mayo, Gary Guyton, Tedy Bruschi, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Eric Alexander, Bo Ruud.

    All of a sudden OLB appears less needy looking ahead to the offseason.
     
  11. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I highly doubt the pats will draft anyone who is already an OLB in college to play OLB for the pats......

    in the pats scheme, both OLB's put their hand on the ground alot more and it needs to be more than just smoke.......you have to be able to be able to get the attention of an OT to help reduce the double teams on the DL guys.....

    the pats have not had a college OLB play OLB for them during belichiks tenure.........but then again, the pats haven't had a draft pick play for them at OLB under BB's tenure........

    somewhere along the line, they have to find quality bodies for the outside or change their scheme a bit to allow for more college OLB types to play that position

    I don't believe that gholston is a valid comparison.....I think there is more wrong with him because even as a rookie, you can put him in on obvious passing situations and have him get after it.......he ain't even doing that......he's a special teamer
     
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As much as he didn't pan out as a starter, Tully Banta-Cain played reasonably well as a reserve OLB and a 7th round draft pick. Well enough to make his million after taxes signing with San Francisco.
    Gholston is certainly a valid comparison:
    - he played DE and even stood up on rare occasions in college at a fairly competitive university.
    - he was drafted by a team that would need to transition him to a 3-4 OLB in a clone of the NE system.
    - if they put him in on obvious passing downs they defeat the uncertainty as to which LBs are rushing by using a player who cannot drop into coverage on a zone blitz (yet, he may figure it out with good coaching and hard work).
    - there is also the fact that pass rushing against NFL OL vice college OL is a whole new ball game that generally requires more than just speed - the kid's technique needed a lot of work.
    - in order to play as more than a Special Teams player he needs to learn how to set the edge against the run, drop into coverage, and add technique to his speed off the edge as a pass rusher. This is the challenge for every player at the OLB position in a 3-4, even the blitz happy 3-4s of Pittsburgh, San Diego, and Dallas.

    There is no reason someone playing OLB in a 4-3 couldn't learn to play a 3-4 OLB - if they have the tool set to get the job done. Gary Guyton has been singled out by BB as someone who can play both ILB and OLB for the team. Guyton was both a Sam and a Will at GA Tech.

    We agree that the needs at LB seem to be lessoning as Mayo, Woods, and Guyton progress and the potential of Crable, Redd, and now Robertson developing within the system. Next year's Training Camp should be fun to track. :singing:
     
  13. tombonneau

    tombonneau In the Starting Line-Up

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    Herzlich from bc looks like total prototypical bb olb. Got the size speed and big play potential
     
  14. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm not saying the guys we have developing at OLB are chopped liver, but neither have they shown they can get consistent pressure on the QB. If the Pats can add just one passrushing stud, this defense goes up to an entirely new level. Here's a name not mentioned much. What do you guys think about Aaron Curry out of Wake Forest?

    I know these clips tell you very little, but take a look.
    YouTube - Wake Forest LB Aaron Curry Official Highlight Reel
     
  15. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    What kind of OLB? There is the pure pass rush type, usually a bit smaller but fast(Colvin). There is the Elephant DE conversion(McGinest). But I think the most valuable without question is the type that can play BOTH inside and outside(Thomas/Vrabel). I would suggest Crable is going to be more like the Elephant, and IDing a guy that can play BOTH out of college is next to impossible because he has to succeed at one position on the next level before he can attempt the 2nd. It wouldnt surprise me to see Guyton groomed on the outside in the "Colvin" role seeing he was the faster LB in the draft....so I dont see this as a real NEED position. What they do need to find are PLAYMAKERS on defense at ANY position. Rodney,Bruschi and Seymour arent likely long for this team...
     
  16. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    What kind of OLB? There is the pure pass rush type, usually a bit smaller but fast(Colvin). There is the Elephant DE conversion(McGinest). But I think the most valuable without question is the type that can play BOTH inside and outside(Thomas/Vrabel). I would suggest Crable is going to be more like the Elephant, and IDing a guy that can play BOTH out of college is next to impossible because he has to succeed at one position on the next level before he can attempt the 2nd. It wouldnt surprise me to see Guyton groomed on the outside in the "Colvin" role seeing he was the faster LB in the draft....so I dont see this as a real NEED position. What they do need to find are PLAYMAKERS on defense at ANY position. Rodney,Bruschi and Seymour arent likely long for this team...
     
  17. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    We already found there replacements- Meriweather and Mayo. Both whom look very good so far and should continue to improve.

    What we need is the long over due replacement at OLB. Willie McGinest, Rosevelt Colvin, and a deteriorating Mike Vrabel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  18. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Really that guy that can play both is your Sintim. Jack of all trades, including coverage, master of none. He is the only guy that I have seen play that fits the both category.

    Cushings is not a cover guy, so he would be an instant liability on our defense.

    I would prefer the one dimensional pass rushing demon that can come in on 3rd and long and make the QB have to unload the ball before he wants to.
    Perfect example was the Jets game on 3rd and 15. It is so frustrating that in a QB dominated league, we do not have a difference maker at that pass rushing demon position.
     
  19. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree on what an impact player would do from the edge. It seems (I'm not certain), that unless BB has confidence that this player can play well in coverage and vs the run, he won't see the field as just a pass rushing demon.

    The problem that we as fans have, is the disadvantage of not knowing for certain which of our developing OLBs has the best pass rushing skills, which of course are mostly exhibited during practice under the eyes of coaches (Woods being the lone exception due to his game reps). It remains to be seen if Redd will get more reps during garbage time, or if Robertson will even see the field (due to his late arrival). Like most here, I have high hopes for Crable -- but he's a wait-and-see till next season.

    For the rest of this season, we can only hope that Woods develops some pass rushing skills, Vrabel heals some, and AD returns. That's the hand we've been dealt.
     
  20. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i think a good OLB covers up some deficiencies in the secondary. if there is a top guy out there where we are drafting we should swallow that player up. however, if there is a great CB and a good OLB, ill take the great CB
     
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