Welcome to PatsFans.com

JPMorgan hires crude tanker to store gasoil-to jack up prices!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Run DMC, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,593
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +43 / 7 / -7

    #24 Jersey

    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  2. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,593
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +43 / 7 / -7

    #24 Jersey

  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,440
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ratings:
    +901 / 7 / -3

    What's the big deal with this? So a brand new tanker is available, the shipping costs have dropped 87%, and JP Morgan bets that oil will rise moving forward, so it buys, and stores oil off the European coast. With Russia playing games with energy, what's the big deal here? How are they trying to spike the price? To alter the price, by way of increasing demand artificially, they'd have to load more than one tanker I'd think. The US alone consumes 20 million barrels a day, so 2 million in a single tanker isn't much. Am I missing something here? I'm honestly asking.
     
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,662
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    This isn't as bad as what other companies have done.

    Enron and other energy companies used to make FAKE calls in order to sabotage power plants or to manipulate energy output in California.

    The biggest problem with capitalism is that we give corporations legal rights as if they were a person, but many corporations act as if they were the most immoral, amoral individuals on the planet.
     
  5. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    the problem is, I believe, that this constitutes price-fixing which is against the law........I could be wrong

    eitehr way, I don't really have a problem with it because what are they going to do when they run out of tankers.......eventually, behavior like this creates a glut, which could get oil down to 25/bbl

    at least they ain't dumping it in the desert like they did in the 70's
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,318
    Likes Received:
    197
    Ratings:
    +564 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    Amen to that! The very structure and objectives of public corporations are destined for corruption and deceipt.
     
  7. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,662
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    The tactic JPMorgan used here is also peanuts compared to other industries.

    The entire diamond industry is set up so they only release a fraction of the total supply into the marketplace.

    There are actually a SH*TLOAD of diamonds available, but it's kept in low supply in order to jack up prices by 1000000%.
     
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,440
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ratings:
    +901 / 7 / -3

    How does it constitute price fixing? I'm asking here, cuz I feel like I might be missing something. If JP Morgan sees an opportunity to make money, by purchasing oil now, and storing off of europe, cuz it feels the price may double in the coming months, is that illegal? Is that wrong? Isn't that simply an investment? 2 million barrels won't put a dent in the price on the market, I don't think. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would. Also, isn't price fixing when two competitors conspire to ensure that the price of a product they sell, doesn't go below, or stays, at a certain number.
     
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,662
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Another thing I thought of, is that the entire existence of OPEC is about getting together to conspire about selling oil at a certain price, subverting a truly free or efficient market.
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,440
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ratings:
    +901 / 7 / -3

    Wow, did you figure that out, all by yourself?
     
  11. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,117
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I think you're right. They's ain't price fixing cuz they's ain't settin' any prices. They's letting the market do it for 'em.
     
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,626
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Fargin' BASTIGES!
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Bigdogx

    Bigdogx On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    If enough tankers park outside of ports for a few months the supply will shrink and the demand will rise creating a artificial price spike. Pretty much all of the oil companies are doing this, hell the other day it was either here or somewhere else, a story was posted with port officials discussing the rising amount of tanker being used as storage till a price spike happens.

    Makes the story's about peak oil seem a little fishy IMO if they can meet the worlds supply, and also fill up as many tankers as they can get their hands on to store it up and sell it off at a inflated price later on!
     
  14. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,662
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    The point is there are tons of other worse practices than the OP is acknowledging based on his tone, whether it be the diamond industry, domestic energy companies, or OPEC.

    GFY.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,440
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ratings:
    +901 / 7 / -3

    I totally understand that, as it follows the basic tenets of supply and demand. Pointing to JP Morgan doing it alone, doesn't quite accomplish that though. Even if they are loading up 100 super tankers (200 million barrels of oil) worth of stored reserves, I'm not sure it'll affect the price all that much, especially with demand declining. There is already a surplus of supply available. Global daily consumption is somewhere around 85 million barrels per day. That's over 31 billion barrels per year. What's 200 million barrels mean to that, nevermind the 2 million that JP Morgan is storing offshore? To me, not much. Again, I could be wrong here, as maybe I'm missing something.

    There's only 130 million barrels in offshore storage around the world. That's a day and a half's worth of global consumption. With the dollar tumbling, and massive US deficits growing, my guess is that this is an investment in oil. Tangiable oil in a market where there could be potential issues with supply. Again, my guess is this, and I could absolutely be wrong.
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,440
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ratings:
    +901 / 7 / -3

    You know, I think the sun comes up in the morning, and bears **** in the woods. Unless of course, they're in a zoo. Then, I think bears **** in a zoo. I'm not positive, but...:rolleyes:

    Then again, in certain parts of the world, at certain times of the year, does the sun even come up? Hmmm.....
     
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,662
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Who cares, take your issues up with the original poster of this thread.
     
  18. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    which is why I said that I could be wrong........but if government can find wrong in things like samsung dumping memory chips on the open market, then there is the same kind of wrong in this........as in artificially creating or destroying a market for something
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>