Josh McDaniels has a lot to learn (went conservative since breaking record)

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MrTibbs, Feb 4, 2008.

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  1. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    I'm surprised nobody is saying anything about his play calling. Where were the HB screens? Where were the quick slants? Where was the HB draw plays? To me it looks like they played conservative and got comfy with a 4 point lead. That killer instinct went away once Brady, Moss and the team got all their records in the regular season.

    After that week 17 game against the Gians the offense went into safety super cautious mode.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  2. 60minuteman

    60minuteman Rookie


    McDaniels is the one I keep wondering about. Distracted by coaching offers? Not enough supervision by BB?

    I figured with 2 weeks to prepare, there was a chance JM or BB would come up with some offensive twists. Different formations, different players, different snap counts, etc. I think Brady may have been tipping plays/ receivers based on his audibles. Even if not, the Giants seemed very keyed-in to each play, and I think that's because there wasn't enough variation.

    Instead, it seemed to me they ran their same well-filmed offense which allowed the Giants to very easily anticipate the matchups and how to defend the play. I know Brady didn't practice for a few days and that probably limited their installing any radical new plays.

    But my overall feeling is that BB didn't do enough to influence the offense, leaving too much responsibility to Brady and JM.

    The biggest shocker to me is the lack of halftime adjustment to their offense.
  3. Truck

    Truck Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    What could he have done?

    Screen passes: They weren't bringing the house; on the short passes, faulk would've gotten stuffed at the line

    Rush Maroney: Obviously wasn't working

    Deep pass: Brady had no time to set it up.

    Welker: kind-of worked, but still he was hit shortly after the catch.

    The giants weren't brining the house. When they're not blitzing, and still getting incredible pressure on the qb; you can't win.

    Its a testiment to the D that we stayed in the game for as long as we did.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  4. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Why didn't they roll Brady out? To me like I stated the offense seemed scaled back after the broke all those records. Why rethink everything when what you did early on got you to 16-0? I don't care what kind of pass rush that was the offense didn't look anything like it had all season. It's not like they didn't see the same pass rush in week 17!
  5. PF1996

    PF1996 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Bingo. If I, watching TV, can predict 99% of the freaking time whether the Pats are going to run or pass then I'm sure the opposing team can do the same. Belichick, because of the team's offensive talent, got arrogant and made execution harder on his players by making his offense predictable and one dimensional. The Pats either pass about 20 straight times or when they decide to run, then run 10 straight times, all from very predictable formations. Defenses look good against the Pats O because they don't have to think/guess at what the Pats are going to run. The most frustrating part of this loss is that the Pats killed themselves, more than the Giants did. The Giants played to the best of their ability but there were many things the Pats could have done to counter the Giants and they refused to do any of them. The Pats have always fared well against blitzing team, with less offensive talent because they were willing to change their offense to attack the weak areas of the defense. Their arrogance and stubborness prevented them from doing the same last night until they absolutely had to once they had fallen behind and this is what cost them the game. Not the defense which held the Giants to 3 freaking points through 3 qtrs.
  6. Rocky

    Rocky On the Roster

    McDaniels had a bad game. There was very little creativity to the plays run. Overall, it's tough to say he had a bad year when the offense played as well as it did. However, at numerous points during this year and last, I have been underwhelmed by his playcalling.

    And to the above point, you are correct. My buddies and I actually did this during one of the games later in the year, and at times, you can easily predict whether the play is going to be a run or a pass. We were about 80% accurate. If we can diagnose a play sitting on a couch, the opposition can certainly do it as well. Maybe the predictability worked for awhile, but teams caught on throughout the season, particularly in the playoffs.

    I still don't understand why there were not more quick slants and draws. They tried some screens without much success. But give the Giants D-Line credit. And despite all this complaining we're all doing, if a fluke pass isn't caught against Tyree's helment, the Pats probably STILL win the game despite being out hustled and outworked.
  7. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    You are right, our offense is so damm predictable. It is amazing that is why every team we played except one beat us. ..... never mind that is the dolphins.....

    the melt down on our losing one game this season you would think this was 1990 when we won one game.
  8. 60minuteman

    60minuteman Rookie

    Obviously our offense accomplished amazing things this year, as did the whole team. And no doubt we must give big credit to the Giants D for playing their hearts out.

    The point I (and probably others) am trying to make is that for such a "well-coached" team in the hands of a "genius" of a coach, it seems to me they didn't anticipate some fundamental issues when planning for this game. Perahps there's more to it, or perhaps BB is simply too hands-off on offense.

    It's great for BB to be coaching the defense on the sideline while Brady and JM are running the show, but it also speaks volumes about what happened to our offense during the post-season, imo.
  9. skaIownsIyou

    skaIownsIyou On the Game Day Roster

    JM didn't call enough running plays. You saw Maroney shredding the tired Giant's front 7 late in the game. Just so terribly disapointed.

    Loss of words.

    But today at work, JM was exactly the person I was thinking off. WAY too many check downs and Screens.

    It's ok. Alway's next year.

    Only 1 Team can talk ****. That's the Giants. All other teams say one thing. "Always next year"
  10. karran_s

    karran_s On the Game Day Roster

    Football, ultimately, boils down to winning the big one.. If you can't win that one, you don't go down in the record books or get the respect.. It's as simple as that.

    We can all collectively whine and point fingers but ultimately, there were failures all around - from the coaches, the players, everyone... I think I saw the Giants functioning as a team. But the Pats, except for the 4th quarter drive which resulted in a late TD, looked out of rhythm, confused and even disinterested ... I don't know if it was just me but Brady, Moss and others seemed to have too grim of an expression on their faces right at the start of the game.. Maybe the thought of perfection was weighing too heavily on them, who knows ??

    Anyway, they had a great run and they ARE a great team.. I think they can come back next year (forget the 16-0 BS, that's done now) and win the big one... I think they will meet Green Bay or Dallas this time.. They should get it done this time around. Last time around, they didn't win the AFC. They did it this year. Next year, they should win the SB and I think they will.
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    One thing I don't get is when the starting defense comes off the field to the bench on everyt series, Belichick is working with them not Pees and Belichick ignores the offense all together. Yet, people are always down on McDaniels and not Pees.

    The fact of the matter is, McDaniels did try a lot of things yesterday. Some were good ideas and some were bad. The problem is the o-line was so bad that at times they would have been more effective if they laid end to end on the ground and forced the Giants defenders to jump over them to get to Brady. It is hard to call a gameplan when the defenders are in the backfield faster than Brady can drop back.

    I don't think McDaniels called a good game, but execution was the biggest problem on offense and Charlie Weis, Don Correll, or Bill Walsh wouldn't have been able to call an very effective gameplan the way the offense, in particular the offensive line, played.
  12. PF1996

    PF1996 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    I disagree. Once it was obvious that the offense couldn't get going because the OL was getting run over, then the priority should have been increasing the protection. Maroney had some good runs running straight ahead early in the game because the Giants were selling out (as usual) to rush the QB. Josh should have bulked up the protection and worked on short passes mixed in with running plays and passes to Maroney. Also, increasing help for the OL might have given them some confidence and allowed them to play better later, without help. It also would have allowed Brady to get comfortable in the pocket which is essential for him to play well when pressured. Brady never got comfortable and his play suffered because of it. The Pats O never got into a rhythm because BB and McDaniels were too arrogant to make the necessary adjustments to combat the fact that the OL stunk.

    What's ironic about this game is that despite the Giants playing to the max of their potential and despite the OL's and Brady's crappy play, the Pats talent still allowed them to move the ball. However, McDaniels would then pull a completely stupid playcall out his butt to terminate a drive. Classic case was the stretch play to the left on a 2nd and 2. Perfect freaking time for a playaction/quick slant. Then, he ran the same stupid play on 3rd and 1, to the same side, from an OBVIOUS running formation. McDaniels' idiotic playcalling cost us this SB as surely as the dropped INTs by the DBs on the last drive.
  13. neuronet

    neuronet In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    I agree that the offensive play calling was shoddy. He didn't play up to our strengths. But also, our O-line has something to do with that.

    Last night watching our offense was like watching a mediocre team. It was so painful. Yes, partly it was the Giants domination, but we didn't get into a rhythm until the fourth quarter.
  14. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    hes an idiot. abandon run which basically bails on Brady because now..its obvious were passing rest of game and hes gonna keep getting hit.
  15. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    If anything it means we need a better DC more than we need a better OC. BB obviously trusts Josh to manage the offense with absolutely no assistance, but feels the need to do the DC's job for him.

    MRBLAZE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    This is what's puzzling to me. Why couldn't he realize that something wasn't working by the score through 3 quarters? Why was it there was no sense of urgency to change something up? BB did a great job obviously in whatever he said to the defense or adjustments he made since they gave up only 17 and 3 through 3, but he should have sensed Josh struggling and done something about it.

    Heck, maybe he did, who knows. I just assumed that if he did we would've scored again before the damn 4th on our last possible shot.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008
  17. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    BB has been playing DC all year. Even if he thought the offense needed help he was too worried about def, to switch in the last game.
  18. WIPatriots

    WIPatriots Rookie

    I believe they just wore down.

    The Giants played well, deserved to win, but - really - we lost the SB b/c Brady was still hurting.
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    The problem wasn't as much not having max protection which they did a lot yesterday, but missed assignments and linemen not being able to hold their blocks. I'm sorry I am not going give the o-linemen a free pass and say their lack of execution was because McDaniels didn't scheme right. The Patriots were outmuscled.

    McDaniels did mix in a lot of short passes and screens, but they failed. Even on a quick WR screen to Welker Strahan got in and batted the ball. Another time Welker got the screen pass only to meet a wall of defenders.

    McDaniels made some bad calls, but it was very clear the big problem was execution. Even brilliant playcalling cannot overcome the way the o-line played yesterday.

    Kazcur further proved yesterday that he is not a starting o-lineman in this league. Hochstein was a less than adequet replacement for Neal yesterday. Mankins was unusually passive. Light seemed lost at time and too jumpy at others. Koppen did ok from what I saw.

    I'm sorry it just doesn't fly the theory that when the offense clicks it is despite McDaniels and when it is failing it is because of him. If he has no really bearing on when the offense is clicking, then he isn't at fault when the offense goes to hell. If the offense can be great dispite of him, he shouldn't be able to do anything to screw it up either.
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Yeah, I agree. If Belichick was concerned how McDaniels called the game, the last thing he would be doing is having his back to the field working with the starting defense to make adjustments when Brady and the offense are on the field.

    I have been wondering for a while whether a new defensive coordinator is on the way. It seems that Pees has been stripped of at least some of his duties since he is usually watching Belichick work with the defense. I thought Pees did a great job in 2006 running the defense, but I wondered about the defense this year.
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