Welcome to PatsFans.com

Jonathan Sullivan from A Saints Fan perspective

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by WhoDatSaints, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. WhoDatSaints

    WhoDatSaints Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    From a true Saint's fan perspective, this guy has been nothing but a disappointment from the second he got drafter. We moved up to get him when he would have falled where we were, he hasn't done anything since he got here except eat and show up overweight every season. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but I just want to keep it real with yall and I want to know what's up with Johnson. I admit you guys definitely got the better end of the deal but still am interested in why we (Saints) gave up a Sullivan for Bethel Johnson in an already overcrowded WR corp.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2005
  2. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    19,445
    Likes Received:
    509
    Ratings:
    +1,512 / 19 / -17

    #75 Jersey

    He was coming off an injury last season. When healthy he is a top KR.

    Kind of "simple"? and hasn't progressed at receiver, though he's made some big plays.

    He is fast, period. Otherwise he wouldn't be in the league.
     
  3. PlattsFan

    PlattsFan On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    You got me. I can't understand it. Bethel has true speed, I'll give him that, but I can't remember a single play were he actually ran a real route and caught the ball (as opposed to a simple speed route like a deep post or a cross five yards from the line of scrimmage). No double moves, not even a simple out pattern. Seems like a simple dump on the Saints part, but I'd of thought they could get something a little more helpful than Bethel.

    He's cheaper than Sullivan, though, so you got that going for ya ... and, as mentioned above, he can be an electrifying force as a kick-returner.
     
  4. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,140
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Ratings:
    +2,933 / 28 / -22

    #75 Jersey

    Feeling here is that the respective systems may hold alot of clues to this. Sully gets a (cautious) pass for not being focused to play for Haslett in a hopeless system, while Bethel gets no respect for taking the great opportunity seriously to be on a dynastic and well-established system.

    If I was a young immature kid contractually trapped working for an incompetent boss in a lousy company, I too, may have not been as focused as possible. Bethel Johnson, however, has no excuses.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2005
  5. WhoDatSaints

    WhoDatSaints Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well I could understand from yall's perspective that Sullivan may have not fared well under Haslett's defense and he could have potential under Belicheck, but nothing against B. Johnson, there's no reason to add a mediocore WR to an already crowded WR pool. There are too many other WR's on the depth chart and not enough DT's to warrant this a good trade for us. Who are yall's WR'S going into this preseason?
     
  6. Julius

    Julius On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0

    Bethel Johnson has amazing straight line speed. He's not particulary quick or sudden and runs poor or inconsistant routes. He is dangerous if he gets a clean release and can chase down long bombs like few receivers. I can see Brees using him as a long ball threat. He makes the occasional huge play but was ill suited for the Pats offense. He doesn't block well and he doesn't seem very elusive or able to break short passes for long gains. He will probably win a game or two for you guys and then do nothing for long periods. Use him as a long ball threat and kick returner and thats all he is good for.
     
  7. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,499
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Well, this seems to be the prevailing thought on other boards that I have been to.
    Posts about Bethel from us are accurate as far as I'm concerned.
    Yup. It looks like we flushed our **** down each others toilet.
     
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,965
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +178 / 2 / -3

    Bethel does everything you could ever want or expect from a premier, speedster, deep threat WR... except actually catch the ball.

    It's really just too bad that's part of the job requirement.

    That said this seems to be a worthwhile trade for both teams - both guys could benefit from a fresh situation, though none of us fans - Saints or Pats - should hold our breath expecting much.

    In my eyes we just swapped busts, giving ourselves a chance to look at each others' problem children closeup before we ultimately cut the both of them.

    If by some chance either team gets lucky and the player actually produces, well, then good for them... neither guy was going to do much with their previous team.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2006
  9. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Deion Branch, Chad Jackson, Troy Brown, Reche Caldwell, Bam Childress

    Bethel will definitely bring KR skills to the Saints. He's kinda similar to Michael Lewis actually. He's got speed and an occasionally deep threat. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.

    To be honest, a lot of us didn't think Bethel was going to make the 53 (Bam was the favorite for that spot). All the Patriots are looking out of Sullivan is to be back-up immovable blob NT in a 3-4 defense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2006
  10. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,140
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Ratings:
    +2,933 / 28 / -22

    #75 Jersey

    Shmessy's Law:

    The malcontent from a lousy system going to a great system has the edge over the malcontent going from a great system to a lousy system.
     
  11. roguepatriot

    roguepatriot Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I am probably in a minority, but I think, given the chance, Bethel might succeed in a different environment. Personally, I do not think his hands are a problem, its his poor route running that did not suit Brady. If he is allowed to just run, he can be a deep ball threat. His days in New England were definitely numbered. This also suggests to me that Dante's days in N.O. are numbered too, as the new management clear out the previous problem children.

    I am also optimistic that Sullivan will work out for N.E., once he gets past the conditioning run.

    Only time will tell.
     
  12. PlattsFan

    PlattsFan On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I think that pretty much sums it up right there.
     
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,947
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Yup, we call that Shmessy got BINGO!
     
  14. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,725
    Likes Received:
    30
    Ratings:
    +51 / 0 / -2

    #15 Jersey

    WhoDatSaints, hope everything is working out for you guys down there. Heard the stadium will be ready for the season. My guess is that Bethel will run back one for you this year and will return a few out to the 50, if he stays healthy. Who knows how he and Brees will work out. Didn't happen up here. Maybe playing closer to home will work out for him.
    I see Sullivan here as a backup who might get a turn in the rotation. Who knows, he might contribute, then again he might get cut, only to get picked up by............
     
  15. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,311
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +78 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    What you're all missing is that BJ is a downgrade to New Orleans' return game. Lewis is probably the best in the league...and probably faster (and definitely shiftier) than Bethel, especially given all of Bethel's physical ailments the last few years.

    I don't understand the trade from the Saints side, unless maybe a trade of Donte Stallworth is imminent. At least if they got Klecko they would have a useful player to replace Sullivan on the D-line. Of course maybe they asked and BB said no.
     
  16. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I tend to agree....change in sceneary MAY help both..the many WRs there may signal a trade of Stallworth...and who knows..maybe he cones here????
    I agree...Sullivan seems like he's way overweight and maybe NOT one who will do good here..ON the other hand, with Sey here, who knows him, he may be able to light a fire under him...and a backup NT would be a great place for him...in the rotation!!! Look for another move this week from NE...
     
  17. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    24,070
    Likes Received:
    408
    Ratings:
    +1,631 / 34 / -24

    Bethel Johnson played well when he was on the field. There were glimpses of everything you would want out of a WR. There were no blatant flaws that showed up on the field.
    The problem was that he rarely got on the field.
    Ive said the same all along, so wont change it since he is traded.
    The real question is why couldnt he get on the field? What were things we couldn't see? Is it attitude? Did he not understand the system? Work ethic? Inability to recover from injuries?
    That is the question for Bethel.
    He has all the tools physically, but something is missing.
     
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,311
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +78 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    AJ, you've been saying that for years now, and after a brief discussion the first time, I've let it go since. I think it's time to bring it up again.

    Where do you get that from? He couldn't run any route that didn't begin and end in a straight line. And even those he didn't always run well.

    What glimpses did you see? He has decent size. Decent hands. Great speed. Looked tight in #81.

    But I would call the inability to get open or run routes correctly a fatal flaw in WRs.
     
  19. SunnyDenmark

    SunnyDenmark Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    worth a gamble

    in my book that was a great roll of the dice for the Pats. There is alot of game tape on Sullivan as he has been in alot of games the last three years. Bill must of seen something he likes on the tapes. Even if he just spells V. Wilfork to catch his breath - it will be ok. Bethel's production has declined each year and that (as Brady spreads the ball around) is a bad sign. If there is no confidence in the QB to WR chemistry, then forget it. Ship has sailed - move along. I believe this is also a good sign - that Bill likes what he sees in Chad Jackson. Good deal for the Pats even if it ultimately doesn't work out the best. Also the monetary cost (cap cost) is negligible.
     
  20. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I'm not sure what Bethel adds to the Saints. He is not an NFL WR - he's a sprinter. He can't run any routes so his speed is pretty much useless on offense. DBs can just keep backing up and play the deep ball because when he does run a shorter route, he isn't crisp in his breaks and they can easily read it.

    He is also not good enough to be their KR. Lewis is much better. He wasn't even good enough to be our KR anymore.

    The Saints were likely doing the exact same thing the Pats were doing - taking whatever they could get for a guy they fully intended to cut. If they cut Bethel in camp, they just did the same to him as they intended to do to Sullivan. If he makes the team, they got a player for nothing.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>