John Henderson and Clint Ingram released

[Deus Irae]

10 years of experience each in playing 2 gap fronts. It is my understanding that it is easier to go from DT to DE than DE to DT.

You act like these guys are UFAs, Deus. I don't get it.

I've watched them play. You act as if Warren isn't crap. Go to any Browns, Broncos or Raiders board and you'll find that they don't agree with your assessment of him.

Also, both are one gap players.


It's possible that they'll be great in the system. I'm not holding my breath, though.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I've watched them play. You act as if Warren isn't crap. Go to any Browns, Broncos or Raiders board and you'll find that don't agree with your assessment of him.

Also, both are one gap players.

Yup- hate to burst your bubble, robert, but Gerrard Warren sucks. We don't want to be relying on him for much of anything.

 

[BradyBranch39]

As you all know from the other thread, I think highly of Henderson. Call the boy up, BB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Henderson fans shouldn't get their hopes up.

Tom Rock of Newsday reports DT John Henderson is scheduled to visit the Chiefs tomorrow.

Report: DT John Henderson Visiting The Chiefs Tomorrow - Arrowhead Pride

 

[BradyBranch39]

Giants and Falcons too, apparently.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've watched them play. You act as if Warren isn't crap. Go to any Browns, Broncos or Raiders board and you'll find that they don't agree with your assessment of him.

Also, both are one gap players.


It's possible that they'll be great in the system. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Hmmm. What opinion should I decide that carries more weight? Mine (as I have watched them play and while I do not consider them worldbeaters, they are functional NFL vets) and BBs or the fan boards for 2 of the most bitter, unconsolable fanchises in the NFL?

I stand corrected. Seems that a vast amount of the experience Lewis and Warren have is in single-gap defenses. With that said, I still think that b/c of their experience in playing DT in the NFL for many years, they should be able to make the transition to a 2-gap defense. Obviously, I am more optomistic than you.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hmmm. What opinion should I decide that carries more weight? Mine and BBs or the fan boards for 2 of the most bitter, unconsolable fanchises in the NFL?

I stand corrected. Seems that a vast amount of the experience Lewis and Warren have is in single-gap defenses. With that said, I still think that b/c of their experience in playing DT in the NFL for many years, they should be able to make the transition to a 2-gap defense. Obviously, I am more optomistic than you.

Yes, you should definitely ignore all the years of failure that Warren's experienced, because Belichick's never made a mistake.

Are we already heading back into that same ridiculous "BB's never wrong" mode on this board? For crying out loud, the team just cut one of his mistakes. Doesn't anything get through to the people here about that "BB > Non-BB" crap?

"BB>Non-BB" is irrelevant.

 

[Kontradiction]

Henderson fans shouldn't get their hopes up.



Report: DT John Henderson Visiting The Chiefs Tomorrow - Arrowhead Pride

I want him but haven't gotten my hopes up. Even though we just had what appears to be a very solid draft, I've had this sinking feeling all along that we're set with pick-ups for the D-Line (that includes Henderson as a DE). I think/hope Warren will get cut before the season and I hope that Lewis, Deaderick, Wright, and whomever else sees time at DE does a better job than the group of bodies last year.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Yup- hate to burst your bubble, robert, but Gerrard Warren sucks. We don't want to be relying on him for much of anything.

I would not rely on Damione Lewis or Amon Gordon either - We need a decent DL on Seymour's side or expect to see alot of Mike Wright who I think is better than any of the guys they signed thus far.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, you should definitely ignore all the years of failure that Warren's experienced, because Belichick's never made a mistake.

Are we already heading back into that same ridiculous "BB's never wrong" mode on this board? For crying out loud, the team just cut one of his mistakes. Doesn't anything get through to the people here about that "BB > Non-BB" crap?

"BB>Non-BB" is irrelevant.

My origional position is that Gerard Warren is not crap and with his size and experience playing on the D-line for 10 NFL seasns, he has the potential to help this defense.

BB may very well be wrong. But to say that a 10 year NFL veteran is crap just because fanboards say so is short-sighted IMO.

Look at the posts on this board. By most accounts, Moss is washed up, Merriweather sucks and Mayo is a bust.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

My origional position is that Gerard Warren is not crap and with his size and experience playing on the D-line for 10 NFL seasns, he has the potential to help this defense.

BB may very well be wrong. But to say that a 10 year NFL veteran is crap just because fanboards say so is short-sighted IMO.

Look at the posts on this board. By most accounts, Moss is washed up, Merriweather sucks and Mayo is a bust.

Warren does suck....The Raiders thought he sucked too but BB gets him on the cheap so its no real loss if he sucks and is cut later.

You make it sound like there was a waiting list on this guy,Warren might have been unemployed if the Pats didn't pick him up and this is saying something since quite a few teams could use a DL.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Warren does suck....BB took him because the Raiders thought he sucked too but BB gets him on the cheap so its no real loss if he sucks and is cut later..

"BB took Warren because the Raiders thought that he sucked". That makes a lot of sense.

Warren is 31 and was owed $6m. Thats going to get anyone cut.

You make it sound like there was a waiting list on this guy,Warren might have been unemployed if the Pats didn't pick him up and this is saying something since quit a few teams could use a DL.

Read my posts. Never made the assertion that Warren was in high-demand. My position is that hes a 10 year, experienced vet with a lot of size who can get after the Qb every now and then. His run D admittingly has been sub-standard.

God forbid the team brings in anyone less than Richard Seymour circa 2002. Amazing.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I would not rely on Damione Lewis or Amon Gordon either - We need a decent DL on Seymour's side or expect to see alot of Mike Wright who I think is better than any of the guys they signed thus far.

I agree with that too. There's a definite hole in our roster at DE right now, but Gerrard Warren definitely isn't the fix. That's why I wasn't a huge fan of the Seymour trade (let's not beat that dead horse again), and why I'd be pretty pumped if we landed Henderson.

I remember that even coming out of college, though, Henderson had a bad back. For a guy of his size, that's obviously a major concern. Does anyone who knows more about him than I do know if that's still a major issue w/ him?

 

[slash83]

If there wasnt so much activity and interest of Henderson from other teams Id throw the Pats into the mix, but considering the amount of interest he has received and the fact the Pats added Warren and Lewis via FA I give Henderson little to no shot with the Pats.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree with that too. There's a definite hole in our roster at DE right now, but Gerrard Warren definitely isn't the fix. That's why I wasn't a huge fan of the Seymour trade (let's not beat that dead horse again), and why I'd be pretty pumped if we landed Henderson.

I remember that even coming out of college, though, Henderson had a bad back. For a guy of his size, that's obviously a major concern. Does anyone who knows more about him than I do know if that's still a major issue w/ him?

Seems like he had a nagging shoulder injury all of last year. Didn't see anything about a chronic back problem.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If there wasnt so much activity and interest of Henderson from other teams Id throw the Pats into the mix, but considering the amount of interest he has received and the fact the Pats added Warren and Lewis via FA I give Henderson little to no shot with the Pats.

Yep. Folks are lining up for him. Would have prefered JH over Warren in a heartbeat.

John Henderson

From rotoworld.com

Big John already has suitors lining up, with the Giants, Falcons, and Browns also in pursuit. Though Henderson's been a 4-3 lineman for his entire career, he did dabble at tackle in 3-4 sets with Jacksonville last season. His best position in a 3-4 like the Chiefs', however, would be at defensive end.

 

[slash83]

Yep. Folks are lining up for him. Would have prefered JH over Warren in a heartbeat.

John Henderson

From rotoworld.com

Yeah so would I, I think he'd fit in very well next to Vince and Ty. You never know though BB might feel the same way and make a push to sign him, we all know how much he covets those vet DL. Dont know much about him but Im sure hes seen his fair share of losses in Jax and has made some excellent coin throughout his career. Maybe hes one of those rare cases where at this point in his career he is more interested in a ring rather than another fat pay check.

 

[Deus Irae]

"BB took Warren because the Raiders thought that he sucked". That makes a lot of sense.

Warren is 31 and was owed $6m. Thats going to get anyone cut.



Read my posts. Never made the assertion that Warren was in high-demand. My position is that hes a 10 year, experienced vet with a lot of size.

God forbid the team brings in anyone less than Richard Seymour circa 2002. Amazing.

You started preaching the "BB = right" stuff about a player without knowing the guy, so the "God forbid" comment is a bit 'unfair'. You called him a 2-gap player when he's not, for example. So, let's take a look at the guy:

He was originally taken #3 overall.

He was a disappointment in Cleveland and shipped to Denver for a 4th round pick:

The News-Herald in northeast Ohio reported that the Cleveland Browns agreed to trade Warren to Denver for a fourth-round pick in April's draft. The trade could not be officially completed until Wednesday.

Warren hasn't lived up to his high draft status in his four NFL seasons. His season tackle totals have diminished from 61 as a rookie to 39 his second year, 32 in 2003 and 18 last year. Warren has 16{ career sacks, including four last year. …

Article: Broncos eye DT Warren from Browns. | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

After having a decent year with the Broncos and getting a nice contract from them, he crapped the bed and got moved for almost nothing. Notice the particular issue about his game that was highlighted in the article:

But Warren apparently didn't fit new defensive coach Jim Bates' scheme, which requires tackles who can hold their positions instead of penetrating the backfield.

Broncos trade Warren to Oakland

Warren was acquired Monday for a conditional fifth-round pick in the first deal between the AFC West rivals since 1993. The Broncos only get the pick if Warren makes the Raiders' roster.

Broncos trade DT Gerard Warren to Raiders - USATODAY.com

He's been poor in Oakland, too, and was sharing snaps with a UFDA last season:

The Raiders had the worst run defense in the NFL during Warren's tenure, allowing 153.7 yards rushing per game and a league-worst 71 touchdowns on the ground. Warren had 77 solo tackles and 10 sacks in 44 games with Oakland.

Raiders release former third overall pick DT Warren - NFL - CBSSports.com Football

Maybe BB can make it work, but don't count on it.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

If there wasnt so much activity and interest of Henderson from other teams Id throw the Pats into the mix, but considering the amount of interest he has received and the fact the Pats added Warren and Lewis via FA I give Henderson little to no shot with the Pats.

If Pioli lets him go after he visits KC,BB probably will too if he makes it here....those minds think alike

 

[slash83]

If Pioli lets him go after he visits KC,BB probably will too if he makes it here....those minds think alike

Yeah like I said earlier, we all know BB has a soft spot for talented vets who are still looking for a ring before they hang up the cleats. There is still somewhat of a hole at the DE position even with the Lewis and Warren acquisitions, Henderson could fill that hole and maybe more. BB is more then likely looking into bringing in Henderson, how aggressive he is remains to be seen.