Welcome to PatsFans.com

John Elway doesn't impress me as a GM

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Ice_Ice_Brady, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,383
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +100 / 2 / -1

    You can call it sour grapes, but I was probably the biggest voice of reason last year about the Broncos and Manning, as I thought they were a really good team and the class of the AFC. I think Manning is one of the best regular season QBs ever, but I can't believe all of the hype and praise being thrown at John Elway.

    His philosophy boils down to this:

    1. Find a big name player on the free agent market.
    2. Wait until other teams have courted and evaluated that player, setting the market.
    3. Come over-the-top and offer the player more money, basically telling them "we'll give you more as long as you say yes right now."

    Not a single signing has been below market, a player who happens to uniquely fit their scheme, or a diamond in the rough. He outbids everyone, gets the player, and yet the media thinks this is a good strategy. Almost all of these players are likely to perform below the cost of their contract, considering that 31 other teams did not value the player as highly as the Broncos, and that is the inherent problem with free agency, but particularly the problem with the first-day, big-name superstar landings.

    This is a failing philosophy, and Elway is just risking that the team will win a championship before it all comes crashing down. The truth is that the Broncos are very good because of Peyton Manning (which was his only good move) and young, drafted, cheap talent, such as Demaryius Thomas, Von Miller, Chris Harris, Julius Thomas, Terrence Knighton, Trindon Holliday, Knowshown Moreno, etc. These guys came from a different regime.

    If players like Demarcus Ware and Aqib Talib fail in a an epic fashion, which isn't unlikely, the money that went towards those players is money that can't be spend to re-sign their own. Meanwhile, how much do you think Von Miller will command now that an aging has-been just got $10M per year, and how much for Harris when Talib makes $9M and Harris might be as effective?

    This reminds me of the Jets in 2009-10. Rex Ryan went out and spent a lot of money on Bart Scott, Calvin Pace, Ladanian Tomlinson, Kris Jenkins, Brad Smith and Santonio Holmes. Much like Elway, Ryan just outbid everyone else without really finding any value signings. They didn't focus on the draft or developing players. Everyone thought that Ryan had really hit some home runs, but in reality, it was the young, drafted talent from a different regime that was the nucleus- Darrelle Revis, Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Leon Washington, Dustin Keller. Ryan drafted poorly and the well ran dry; when all was said and done, the Jets were not able to restock, and it turned out guys like Scott and Pace were decent but not worth anything close their value. The Jets sank- the money was tied up in overpaid veterans. I see the Broncos as very similar, although because they have Peyton Manning, it may not be as apparent. Ultimately, Elway uses the same philosophy- pay more than anyone else in the name of "being aggressive." This isn't being innovative or using a winning strategy in the NFL, where you need to think outside the box. This is just using an old strategy that may have worked when there was no salary cap, but a strategy that time and time again has failed in the salary cap era.
     
  2. scott99

    scott99 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    3,468
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +184 / 78 / -67

    #87 Jersey

    I respectfully disagree. He's done a good job, and he WANTS to win. Gets destroyed in the SB and what he's doing now, is trying to get back to the Big Game. I don't blame him one bit. His defense wasn't good enough, so he improves it with 3 key signings, loses Decker and signs a pretty good receiver in Sanders. If they have the cap space, why not fill the holes and try to improve the team. I respect Elway and what he's trying to do. Hopefully what the Pats have done is enough to counteract that.
     
  3. Efstratios

    Efstratios On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +69 / 0 / -0

    #32 Jersey

    I'd contend that Elway got both Welker and Ward on pretty good deals, as far as FA signings go.
     
  4. PATS16N0

    PATS16N0 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    148
    Ratings:
    +432 / 38 / -25

    #12 Jersey

    His drafting has been good.

    I think people are looking at his FA moves the wrong way, especially Denver fans and the media. Signing who he's signed doesn't transform them into anything. It's just Elway going all in with what was available, which wasn't much. It wasn't a bad move, it just isn't in the same hemisphere as what people think it is.

    Ware could be a huge bust and Talib could spend half the season in the locker room getting checked out by Denver's medical staff, in a year where Denver will need everyone on the field against the NFC West.

    Signing Talib to Denver and destroying the Patriots secondary was a brilliant move..... right up until it backfired and gave us Revis. Now he's done us a favor I cannot thank him enough for. Never the less, before Revis, that signing gave us a Mortal Kombat fatality and ripped our heart our Kanos style for 2014.

    He who laughs last laughs loudest, right?
     
  5. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,155
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +51 / 8 / -2

    say what u want about him but in two years with a few key moves he got them to the SB for the first time in 15 years, people say his mortgaging the future but they were not winning before he got there so there was no future, he has 1 maybe two more years with Peyton at QB so his going balls to the wall to try to win I cant fault him for that
     
  6. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    18,057
    Likes Received:
    289
    Ratings:
    +771 / 6 / -2

    #95 Jersey

    He's a pretty good GM
     
  7. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,383
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +100 / 2 / -1

    I'm not saying that he has done a bad job, just that his strategy is "all that glitters is gold" and "pay more."

    If that were the mandate from Denver's owner, he could just hire anyone to do the same thing. Go after the obvious big name free agents and back up the brink's truck. This guy is basically Brian Cashman, although Cashman actually tries to negotiate, rather than closing everyone in 5 minutes by upping the offer until they say yes. This philosophy might work short-term in the NFL, but it's going to blow up.

    I think that most people on this message board would have also signed Ward, Ware, Sanders, and Talib, had they been told to sign the best available players at those positions by outbidding the market. What is Elway doing that makes him worthy of praise?
     
  8. GIF Man

    GIF Man Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It sure sounds like it.
     
  9. PATS16N0

    PATS16N0 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    148
    Ratings:
    +432 / 38 / -25

    #12 Jersey


    I don't think the OP is completely wrong though.
    Peyton Manning. Wes Welker. DeMarcus Ware. Aqib Talib...

    What do all these players have in common?

    When the chips are down, or they're needed in the biggest games, or they're facing some adversity on the biggest stage, they all wilt, falter, disappear, choke, or quit.

    If we weren't as injured as we were last year, going into Denver's house with our defense in shambles and our biggest weapon expected to be Blount, they would of had another failed season together.

    Instead they made it one game further and were laughed at from coast to coast in the one of the most embarrassing Superbowl blow outs ever, and definitely of the salary cap era
     
  10. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,546
    Likes Received:
    197
    Ratings:
    +578 / 13 / -5

    #51 Jersey

    Of all the Denver signings, Ward is the only contract that I probably would have tabled. That said, I don't blame the Broncos for pushing all their chips in.
     
  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,383
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +100 / 2 / -1

    I guess everyone disagrees, so let's revisit this thread in 2-3 years. My guess is that by that time Denver will be in big trouble, having wasted a huge chunk of their cap on a few risky players, and maybe it will not be the career ending wide-open window that Peyton Manning was hoping for. And I'll bet Elway is gone.
     
  12. PATS16N0

    PATS16N0 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    148
    Ratings:
    +432 / 38 / -25

    #12 Jersey

    I bet Elway is awesome at Madden in GM mode.
     
  13. ArchAngel007

    ArchAngel007 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +46 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    OT: John Elway doesn't impress me as a GM

    He's a good GM but he has Peyton at QB thus he won't sniff a championship.
     
  14. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    2,216
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +68 / 3 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    He's doing the best to assemble a team to win a championship before Manning is gone and the Talib contract is essentially a one year deal so it's not a big risk.
     
  15. Jangles

    Jangles PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    Yeah

    No

    They just had a record setting year, and played in a SB
     
  16. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    277
    Ratings:
    +710 / 3 / -3

    Honestly, if an older and retired Brady was to come in and do for the Patriot's what Elway has done for the Broncos, I would be ecstatic.
     
  17. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,612
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    But thats the point i think you are missing with Denver. I think Elway and the owners know that they only have 2-3 years with Peyton. At that stage they will have to be rid of Ware as well and give that money to Miller.

    He has identified that in the next 2-3 years he has one of the greatest QB's to have played and that he may go through a year of pain (e.g Indy) for the chance at the big one the next few years.

    Hell we have had pats fans on this board going nuts at times that BB hasn't done this.

    IMO Elway is under no illusion that after Manning goes the team will falter. He is making the best of what he has right now.
     
  18. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,383
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +100 / 2 / -1

    Up for contracts next year: Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker, Orlando Franklin, Von Miller, Terrence Knighton, Chris Harris, Kevin Vickerson

    The day of reckoning may be closer than you think. At the very least, suppose they can pull off a miracle and sign all their core players. If there are any holes, or if Ware or Talib are huge busts, they are going to be strapped.
     
  19. obgod3

    obgod3 Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +13 / 5 / -1

    Oh I think elway has done a great job. The cap numbers are very reasonable and they also have outs for all three players in years two and three. Some good articles out there on it. Of course players want to go there, they have to be the favorites with a strong defense.

    They have done the same things the pats have. I'm not sure how you can look at Denver and say they sold out but the pats didn't, both teams have outs and the cap numbers are workable for certain.

    Elways has been able to turn the broncos around while the pats haven't been able to fix their most obvious problems. Sorry but I think elway is doing a pretty dam good job. They just got sanders and we got lafell...sorry I think they win that, ware -win, Talib pats win...browner is a question mark. NE better get a dam good TE in the draft .

    They link below breaks down the broncos. Ima. Pats fan living in broncos country but while I don't want to see them win a SB I think the last couple years they have clearly out picked the pats when it comes to draft and free agency.

    2014 Denver Broncos Free Agency: Breaking down the big name contracts - Mile High Report

    No doubt that elway is going all in for the next year or possibly two. As far as free agents we have a few next year also, all teams do.
     
  20. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    10,860
    Likes Received:
    569
    Ratings:
    +1,630 / 120 / -180

    #12 Jersey

    Peyton Manning release by the Colts is something that happens once every 25 years and Elway pounced on that opportunity and benefited greatly from it. Had Manning chosen Tennessee or one of the other teams in the race for him three offseason ago I suspect we would be talking about one of those teams and not the Broncos. The fact is as much as we dislike Manning around here and despite the fact; he is not a big game QB and comes up small in those games he is a great regular season QB, one of the best ever to play the game.

    If you reflect on the Belichick/Brady era, the one constant has been their biggest competition being the team led by Manning, heck our last Super Bowl appearance was the season Manning missed, I give Elway credit for getting Manning, but the reality is without Manning he would be up the creek without a paddle. For years, teams like the Browns, Bucs, and Redskins have spent big in UFA on players just like Ward, Welker, and Talib, and that did not make a bit of difference.

    The NFL is a league built around QBs, the credit coaches and GMs receive should be taken in context with the QBs that they have on their teams. Look at Seattle they were 7-9 the season before Russell Wilson, they had the defenders like Sherman, Thomas, and others but they did not have the QB. Elway took an 8-8 team with Tebow leading it and put a HOF QB on it that by some once and century occurrence was avalaible on the UFA market.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>