John Clayton: Pats Talking with Raiders About Derrick Burgess

[BritPat]

He's been a very productive player through his career, so that's promising, but he'll be 31 by opening day. Not sure I like it all that much considering that. I suppose as long as we don't give up too much then it's a goer for me.

 

[flasox27]

I would think that a third or fourth would do it or a player like Watson or Green.

 

[efin98]

What would we give up for him?? A second?? How long is he under contract??

The one source for the rumor that keeps popping up speculated that it might be in the range of a mid to late 2nd or 3rd round draft pick and a new contract.

 

[bigfandan]

Caserio seemed like there was some sort of player out there they might be interested, from reading the interview script. I think this is a kind of guy that would add more to our pass rush and help AD sign like he can. If the Pats can land this guy, we're officially stacked. I don't see a single hole on the team at that point.

ILB is still a major concern. You expect Mayo taking 100% of snaps? Skillset wise, Bruschi is at best 50% snap (has to come off for passing downs for slowness), same with Guyton (less effective on short yardages). Plus wear and tear and heath reasons, all need to come out for snaps or extended period. We have no skills behind these 3.

 

[flasox27]

A third would be a reasonable price. We have 3 seconds next year and can easily recoup the pick.

 

[mayoclinic]

From what I could fine on the web, it appears Burgess ran a 4.84 40 at his combine in 2001. Seems more like DE numbers than LB. I thought BB talked about preferrring 6'5" guys who ran a 4.65 40.

Mel Kiper - NFL combine ... by the numbers - ESPN.com

 

[PatsFanInVa]

He's been a very productive player through his career, so that's promising, but he'll be 31 by opening day. Not sure I like it all that much considering that. I suppose as long as we don't give up too much then it's a goer for me.

Yeah they were just waiting til he got on the right side of 30.

Sirrously... strikes me that the Pats aren't shy about a guy playing past 30. He doesn't have to be "the answer," he just has to be better than not having him.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Wonder if this thread will reach the Adam Seward thread.. Until Burgess does not get traded..

 

[STUB STUB]

FWIW, Madden 09 Ratings:

J Taylor - 98
J Peppers - 96
D Burgess - 92
M Vrabel - 88
...
A Seward - 66

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

FWIW, Madden 09 Ratings:

J Taylor - 98
J Peppers - 96
D Burgess - 92
M Vrabel - 88
...
A Seward - 66

Well that's worth quite a lot...:ugh:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Well that's worth quite a lot...:ugh:

LOL

The early skinny was he wouldn't garner much in trade (which jives with being on the block for 3 months) because he's coming off injuries that cost him 6 games last season and on the wrong side of 30 and he's in the final year of a 5 year deal he's been biatching about for a couple of years now. The only plus is he showed up early to off season workouts in Oakland because he's entering a contract year.

He's probably worth a conditional pick based on playing time and whether or not he can be re-signed. Maybe a 5th that could become a 4th if he's on the opening day roster that could become a 3rd based on playing time and/or signing an extension here.

 

[BradyFTW!]

BB says he did not see value in drafting a 'shorter' OLB ( I am paraphrasing). Burgess is 6'2''. Isn't that short to BB?

In general, that's a good point, but we already have one exception on the roster right now (Thomas is 6'2"). Maybe Belichick's rethinking his philosophy?

 

[TimU]

"madden ratings"?

 

[BradyFTW!]

FWIW, Madden 09 Ratings:

J Taylor - 98
J Peppers - 96
D Burgess - 92
M Vrabel - 88
...
A Seward - 66

That's bull, Seward should be at least a 90.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

LOL

The early skinny was he wouldn't garner much in trade (which jives with being on the block for 3 months) because he's coming off injuries that cost him 6 games last season and on the wrong side of 30 and he's in the final year of a 5 year deal he's been biatching about for a couple of years now. The only plus is he showed up early to off season workouts in Oakland because he's entering a contract year.

He's probably worth a conditional pick based on playing time and whether or not he can be re-signed. Maybe a 5th that could become a 4th if he's on the opening day roster that could become a 3rd based on playing time and/or signing an extension here.

Assuming any validity to the NE interest, the state of the current salary cap would argue the "delay" is the new contract negotiation process. A perfectly normal delay and perhaps another reason for the draft day strategy and the low key wooing of Jason Taylor. Burgess would be stronger against the run than Taylor. I imagine they would like to get him into OTA's for the defensive installation, but he's familiar with two-gap play from his time in Philly.

 

[spacecrime]

FWIW, Madden 09 Ratings:

J Taylor - 98
J Peppers - 96
D Burgess - 92
M Vrabel - 88
...
A Seward - 66

Somehow I can't see any NFL personnel man giving a turtle's turd what a player's Madden rating is. Well, Dan Snyder may sign players based on Fantasy Football "production" but he's the only one.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Assuming any validity to the NE interest, the state of the current salary cap would argue the "delay" is the new contract negotiation process. A perfectly normal delay and perhaps another reason for the draft day strategy and the low key wooing of Jason Taylor. Burgess would be stronger against the run than Taylor. I imagine they would like to get him into OTA's for the defensive installation, but he's familiar with two-gap play from his time in Philly.

I hope not. I'd hate to see them sign a guy they don't know to an extension at 31 just to save a couple of bucks on the cap. They'd have to give him a lot more than $3.5M in bonus money this year for him to agree to a new deal under those circumstances. These change of scenery guys don't always pan out.

It's much more likely the delay was due to lack of widespread interest based on trepidation over his status and first blush disagreement with the two teams who inquired over the starting point for trade compensation.

 

[AzPatsFan]

From what I could fine on the web, it appears Burgess ran a 4.84 40 at his combine in 2001. Seems more like DE numbers than LB. I thought BB talked about preferrring 6'5" guys who ran a 4.65 40.

Mel Kiper - NFL combine ... by the numbers - ESPN.com

I think you have to distinguish between guys that Belichick would be investing three years of training, and established vets that can play for you for a couple of years, immediately Before you start out with a three year program why not start with guys that have the size, the speed, the height, and the mental qualities that you want? You can't pay big time draftees big bucks to go to school for several years so developmental players, raw but athletic, would seem the logical candidates and Belichick has obtained a stable full of them.

Derrick Burgess at 6-2 260 4.8, is almost a duplicate of Adalius Thomas. But Thomas is better. The knock on Burgess is that he can't set the edge against the run as an OLB/DE, while AD can and does. Burgess also has been injured the last couple of years, but he does have a couple of double digit sack years, including one year getting 16 sacks. That is as good as Peppers ever had.

Evaluating where Derrick can play, I would say that his lack of run edge setting rules out SOLB, so Pierre Woods,having shown welas an edger sertter last season, continues as the starter there. Vince Redd was positioned at SOLB, and his size makes sense there as a developing reserve. So there is NO CHANGE on the Strong-side OLBs. Perhasp CRabel migh tbe shifted ther for experience and to offer some posible pass rushing on obvious passing downs.

Derrick would join the WOLB pass rushers for playing time. That means AD, TBC, Crabel and Burgess are all fighting it out or platooning at WOLB, the primary pass rushing position. On passing downs, or maybe other times, Burgess may allow AD to swing inside to provide a ILB blitzing capability, like Tedy used to have, in his heyday.

But I think it is likely that AD will have to stay at WOLB almsot full time, because TBC and Burgess are not edge setters and Crabel is still raw and a question mark, as far as edge setting is concerned. But the acquisition of Burgess would still likely free up Thomas to play some ILB, should that be necessary, and improve that crew from Mayo, Guyton, Tedy to Mayo, Guyton, Tedy and Thomas, McKenzie (IR). That foursome would be a very solid ILB contingent, and deeper than the Patriots have ever had there, in any year.

IMHO, Burgess is somewhat redundant, but OTOH, he does add some more experience to the WOLB position, and improves the ILB situation as he might free AD to go there in an emergency.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I hope not. I'd hate to see them sign a guy they don't know to an extension at 31 just to save a couple of bucks on the cap. They'd have to give him a lot more than $3.5M in bonus money this year for him to agree to a new deal under those circumstances. These change of scenery guys don't always pan out.

It's much more likely the delay was due to lack of widespread interest based on trepidation over his status and first blush disagreement with the two teams who inquired over the starting point for trade compensation.

Okay he's 31 and wants a new contract, why would he agree to come to NE, get a year older playing in a new position, and then expect to negotiate a lucrative new contract as a FA? If NE wanted me in that situation, I'd be insisting on a new contract to compensate for the risk of a position change lowering my value, not to mention the need to hit FA at 32.

 

[Keegs]

FWIW, Madden 09 Ratings:

J Taylor - 98
J Peppers - 96
D Burgess - 92
M Vrabel - 88
...
A Seward - 66

dude can you do me a favor and add up the Madden Ratings for all players on all teams and then tell me which teams have the top 5 highest scores?

I'm looking for a quick way to make easy money, and i don't really care for the whole "working hard" thing, so maybe we can make something happen.

I'm sure glad you found this secret out. We could live like Kings.