PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

John Abraham and Charles Woodson


I'm not mad at Abraham, I'm more mad at the mediots like Loyko and Erika Leigh for spreading lies to us. Disgusting.....
 
I'm not mad at Abraham, I'm more mad at the mediots like Loyko and Erika Leigh for spreading lies to us. Disgusting.....

Well she had the sanders thing right, about a month early. So maybe this is right but not completely done.
 
Why does Abraham owe you an admission of anything? He will make his choice. He will decide based on money, the cities, the team and maybe a lot of other things. And perhaps it will only be the money.

The ONLY time that I would be concerned would be if the patriots chose not to sign him at a "reasonable" amount of money.

But we'll never know Abraham's motives or what the patriots offered.


There is a reason he's still unsigned. No one thinks he's any good and he's asking way too much.

Ninkovich isn't ideal, but Abraham would not be the solution. He'd be an overpaid backup DE.

Rather save that money for other depth signings and/or rollover for next years cap.
 
Great, another year with a crap pass rush.

I think there are several aspects that will improve the pass rush even without the great John Abraham (Happy 35th birthday to him today, by the way):

1. The fact that we'll have Talib, Dennard, McCourty, and Wilson all playing in the positions they belong at from day one on, and that the secondary is more physical, talented, and has more depth

2. The addition of Jamie Collins as our first pick. Belichick would not have chosen to waste our first pick on him had he not had some serious plans and use for him. There will be options for more blitzes in passing situations with different combinations of which Collins could very well be a part of

3. Better talent and depth on the DL with more of an interior presence with Tommy Kelly paired up with Wilfork etc. There is also the addition of Armstead, and the second year leap of Francis, Jones, and even possibly Bequette (although none of us are holding our breath on Bequette)

4. Better LB play with more talent/depth (additions of Collins and Fletcher), along with the second year leap of Hightower and the constants of Spikes and Mayo
 
Ninkovich isn't ideal, but Abraham would not be the solution. He'd be an overpaid backup DE.

I don't think that Ninkovich would be starting over Abraham. He isn't as good vs the run as Abraham is, + Abraham is a more developed pass rusher. I'd have to imagine that Ninkovich would still get around 40%-45% of the snaps, but I wouldn't call Abraham as a "backup DE" either.

Rather save that money for other depth signings and/or rollover for next years cap.

I think this is a fine thought. If Belichick has chosen to move on from messing around with Abraham, than I can't say that I'd blame him. There's nothing wrong with keeping an eye on the cap for 2014, and rolling the money over.

There's also the thought that Belichick used our first pick on Collins, who could get his feet wet in sub packages as a pass rusher.
 
I think there are several aspects that will improve the pass rush even without the great John Abraham (Happy 35th birthday to him today, by the way):

2. The addition of Jamie Collins as our first pick. Belichick would not have chosen to waste our first pick on him had he not had some serious plans and use for him. There will be options for more blitzes in passing situations with different combinations of which Collins could very well be a part of

3. Better talent and depth on the DL with more of an interior presence with Tommy Kelly paired up with Wilfork etc. There is also the addition of Armstead, and the second year leap of Francis, Jones, and even possibly Bequette (although none of us are holding our breath on Bequette)

I agree. I did not get the interest in 35-year-old John Abraham. The Patriots need guys who will be there in January 2014, not August and I just don't see Abraham making it through a full season at his age. My feeling about guys in their mid-30s is that they are emergency signings, not core guys.

The Kelly signing and the addition of Armstead and Collins to a good DL provides ample room for improvement. Bequette was a project when he was drafted, so this is the year we might see some value in his selection.
 
I don't think that Ninkovich would be starting over Abraham. He isn't as good vs the run as Abraham is, + Abraham is a more developed pass rusher. I'd have to imagine that Ninkovich would still get around 40%-45% of the snaps, but I wouldn't call Abraham as a "backup DE" either.



I think this is a fine thought. If Belichick has chosen to move on from messing around with Abraham, than I can't say that I'd blame him. There's nothing wrong with keeping an eye on the cap for 2014, and rolling the money over.

There's also the thought that Belichick used our first pick on Collins, who could get his feet wet in sub packages as a pass rusher.

I think he's better than Ninkovich, but he's old. He can't play every snap. Even last year he was used as a 3rd DE when they specifically needed a pass rush.

I agree he'd get plenty of snaps, but for the money just not worth it.
 
So...he would sign with the Titans because of some other reason? It not really about the Patriots. I would not be critical of him if he signed with any of the other contenders...Niners, Seahawks, Broncos, Ravens, Giants. Going to the Titans would be a money grab...as long as he admitted that I'd be fine with the decision.

You say that as if a free agent player should apologize for taking employment with the employer willing to pay him the most money.
It pretty much goes without saying that when you are looking for a job the employer that pays you the most usually gets you. The idea that NFL players think they know who is going to win and are interested in going there to buy a ring is ridiculous.
 
I think there are several aspects that will improve the pass rush even without the great John Abraham (Happy 35th birthday to him today, by the way):

1. The fact that we'll have Talib, Dennard, McCourty, and Wilson all playing in the positions they belong at from day one on, and that the secondary is more physical, talented, and has more depth

2. The addition of Jamie Collins as our first pick. Belichick would not have chosen to waste our first pick on him had he not had some serious plans and use for him. There will be options for more blitzes in passing situations with different combinations of which Collins could very well be a part of

3. Better talent and depth on the DL with more of an interior presence with Tommy Kelly paired up with Wilfork etc. There is also the addition of Armstead, and the second year leap of Francis, Jones, and even possibly Bequette (although none of us are holding our breath on Bequette)

4. Better LB play with more talent/depth (additions of Collins and Fletcher), along with the second year leap of Hightower and the constants of Spikes and Mayo

The interior pass rush should be bolstered by Armstead and Kelly, that is very encouraging. We need to do better at the other DE opposite of Jones, which is why Abraham, or Freeney are so intriguing.
Not only does the 4 man rush improve, but we are more able and likely to blitz with front 4 players who are good enough in individual pass rush skills to take advantage of the opportunity the blitz sets up for them. On the other hand when you have mediocre individual pass rushers that can be consistently handled by one man, you are crazy to blitz because you get no pressure AND have fewer men in coverage....that has been our issue, btw.

I think Adrian Wilson is going to have a major impact on our pass rush. If you go back and watch Rodney Harrison in his last few years, he blitzed an awful lot. He rarely got sacks, he rarely hit the QB, but he consistently impacted pass plays by shortening the play with the threat of the pass rush. Often he would blitz all out, and not get picked up until the RB got him, very near the QB. QB threw early because of the presence of the rush. Thats what Wilson brings.

This brings up an important point. Pass rush should not be measured in sacks. If you get 3 a game, at best you stalled 3 drives (not every sack stalls a drive) and would be near the top of the league in sack numbers. The other drives, based upon gauging by sacks you had no rush. Sacks aren't measured in hits on the QB because they are often after the play successfully occurred.
Pass rush is about consistently taking the QB out of his comfort zone, and consistently making the pass play happen quicker than intended. Thats what we need to develop.
IMO, we have improved the interior rush, we seem to have improved the blitz package, but we are still a DE that can consistently get pressure, away from having a fierce pass rush that controls a game.
 
There is a reason he's still unsigned. No one thinks he's any good and he's asking way too much.

Ninkovich isn't ideal, but Abraham would not be the solution. He'd be an overpaid backup DE.

Rather save that money for other depth signings and/or rollover for next years cap.

If the alternative is Ninkovich, we better pay Abraham want he wants.
 
Woodson would not be a great fit because of his toe; nothing worse than frozen turf for turf toe.
 
A few things to consider so that people can understand that we do not need John Abraham.

1. Chandler Jones before his injury last year, was on pace for a DROY season and would've won had he stayed healthy. Even after, he made impact upon impact but now that he is healthy, lets see from the start of the season. He could emerge as one of the premiere defensive ends in the league kind of like a Jason Pierre-Paul type.

2. The drafting of pass rush extraordinaire OLB/DE Jamie Collins is important and will be an immediate impact on our pass rush. Of course, he will be in subpackages and certain formations at the defensive end spot occasionally.

3. Rob Ninkovich is quietly a very good pass rusher, but is sometimes pulled away from the defensive end position during games to do other things because he is so versatile but he does make a timely and definite impact, especially during important parts in a game.

4. I like what Justin Francis showed last year when he got playing time and that Buchanon kid has some good intangibles. Not to mention that Jermaine Cunningham is also solid depth. And what about Jake Bequette? He could prove great value at that position.

5. Jason Vega, lets see what he brings.

6. Dont'a Hightower could possibly sub in and get some snaps at the defensive end spot in certain packages as well.

We want to stay young, athletic, healthy, fresh, fast and interchangeable at that position.
 
A few things to consider so that people can understand that we do not need John Abraham.

1. Chandler Jones before his injury last year, was on pace for a DROY season and would've won had he stayed healthy. Even after, he made impact upon impact but now that he is healthy, lets see from the start of the season. He could emerge as one of the premiere defensive ends in the league kind of like a Jason Pierre-Paul type.

2. The drafting of pass rush extraordinaire OLB/DE Jamie Collins is important and will be an immediate impact on our pass rush. Of course, he will be in subpackages and certain formations at the defensive end spot occasionally.

3. Rob Ninkovich is quietly a very good pass rusher, but is sometimes pulled away from the defensive end position during games to do other things because he is so versatile but he does make a timely and definite impact, especially during important parts in a game.

4. I like what Justin Francis showed last year when he got playing time and that Buchanon kid has some good intangibles. Not to mention that Jermaine Cunningham is also solid depth. And what about Jake Bequette? He could prove great value at that position.

5. Jason Vega, lets see what he brings.

6. Dont'a Hightower could possibly sub in and get some snaps at the defensive end spot in certain packages as well.

We want to stay young, athletic, healthy, fresh, fast and interchangeable at that position.

You forgot Kyle Arrington. More importantly, none of these guys got to the QB last season as well as Abraham did. He would improve our pass rush and play every passing down. That's why people want him.
 
You forgot Kyle Arrington. More importantly, none of these guys got to the QB last season as well as Abraham did. He would improve our pass rush and play every passing down. That's why people want him.

Arrington? He plays DE now? Abe is on the back 9 and the expectation is that his level of play will decline, how much I don't know. Jones and the other young players are expected to progress. He hasn't signed anywhere yet, which is telling what NFL FOs think about him.
 
Arrington? He plays DE now? Abe is on the back 9 and the expectation is that his level of play will decline, how much I don't know. Jones and the other young players are expected to progress. He hasn't signed anywhere yet, which is telling what NFL FOs think about him.

Kyle Arrington averaged the same sack numbers over his career as many of our interior lineman lol
 
Kyle Arrington averaged the same sack numbers over his career as many of our interior lineman lol

Kyle Arrington: 0 Career Sacks
Tommy Kelly: 34 Career Sacks
Vince Wilfork: 17 Career Sacks (while playing most of his career 2 gapping from the NT position)
Kyle Love: 5.5 Career Sacks
Brandon Deaderick: 5 Career Sacks

I know you are trying to use hyperbole but you are so far of the mark...
 
Kyle Arrington: 0 Career Sacks
Tommy Kelly: 34 Career Sacks
Vince Wilfork: 17 Career Sacks (while playing most of his career 2 gapping from the NT position)
Kyle Love: 5.5 Career Sacks
Brandon Deaderick: 5 Career Sacks

I know you are trying to use hyperbole but you are so far of the mark...

Well, when you compare averages, which is what i said, the obvious hyperbole isn't "so far of the mark" as far as hyperbole goes:

Wilfork: 1.89 sacks/season
Kelly: 3.4 sacks/season
Love: 1.83 sacks/season
Deaderick: 1.67 sacks/season

Only one interior lineman on the entire team can say they average 2 sacks more a season than Kyle Arrington. :rolleyes:
 
Jim Wyatt ‏@jwyattsports 8m

Munchak said #Titans in talking stages with DE John Abraham but nothing imminent



Maybe they can end the Abraham watch
 
Jim Wyatt ‏@jwyattsports 8m

Munchak said #Titans in talking stages with DE John Abraham but nothing imminent



Maybe they can end the Abraham watch

I'm hearing it hasn't been done yet due to wanting more playing time.

Tbh, at this point Id rather take Freeney. Abraham just doesn't quite seem like a team oriented guy, which is what I think he's looking for.
 
I'm hearing it hasn't been done yet due to wanting more playing time.

Tbh, at this point Id rather take Freeney. Abraham just doesn't quite seem like a team oriented guy, which is what I think he's looking for.

You may/may not have a point about Freeny's potential to be more of a "team oriented player," I am not sure myself.

The problem is that Freeny is much worse against the run, and would be used in a much more limited basis in my opinion. To top it off, they both seem to want too much money at this point in time.

I don't see Belichick being anywhere close to okay with paying D.Freeny that much money to be a situational pass rusher, whereas Abraham would be more of an actual DE to take more snaps than Ninkovich.
 


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top