Joey Galloway

[Pats726]

Exact thing that I was mad as hell about (not that it matters ) Letting Gaffney go for such a puny amount was not a sane decision by BB

Unfortunately...the element of timing is forgotten about so easily...and makes statements like this ring with little truth..

 

[mgteich]

Some think that not replacing Josh was the decision that lacked solid judgement.

Exact thing that I was mad as hell about (not that it matters ) Letting Gaffney go for such a puny amount was not a sane decision by BB

 

[Deus Irae]

Some think that not replacing Josh was the decision that lacked solid judgement.

Others realize that Josh was replaced, if not in name, and that Josh came to be Josh through the same system.

 

[mgteich]

Yes it worked with Josh who was a HC quality talent, who had worked in football since he was a boy, and played in college under Nick Saban.

Josh became acting OC in 2005 in his FIFTH year with the patriots, having coached on the defense, and after a yer of being QB coach under Charlie.
=================================
Obrein was a coaching assistant in 2007 and a receivers coach in 2008 under josh.

And since it had worked for Josh, surely it would work as well for Obrien???????????? Was Obrein really as ready as josh? was it really close? is it really close even now?
=================================
Casserio seemed a beter choice if an internal choice was required.

Others realize that Josh was replaced, if not in name, and that Josh came to be Josh through the same system.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes it worked with Josh who was a HC quality talent, who had worked in football since he was a boy, and played in college under Nick Saban.

Josh became acting OC in 2005 in his FIFTH year with the patriots, having coached on the defense, and after a yer of being QB coach under Charlie.
=================================
Obrein was a coaching assistant in 2007 and a receivers coach in 2008 under josh.

And since it had worked for Josh, surely it would work as well for Obrien???????????? Was Obrein really as ready as josh? was it really close? is it really close even now?
=================================
Casserio seemed a beter choice if an internal choice was required.

Since I don't know how much input McDaniels/O'Brien had in their rookie seasons as "coordinator", and I don't know how much progress Belichick saw from them in comparison, I can't answer your questions here.

Then again, neither can you, yet you keep posting on it as if your slant against O'Brien is factual, when it's not.

 

[mgteich]

Let's be clear. My criticism is that we didn't have a qualified coordinator in 2009. If Obrien didn't have much input, then the criticism should be better placed on the Front Office for not hiring on OC. However, I though that Obrein was expected to fill the gap (as josh did) in the hope that he could be named OC for the 2010 season.

In any case, do YOU think that Obrien should be promoted to OC for the 2010 season?
Do you think that he is anywhere near as competent as josh when he was named?

Curiously I thought that josh wasn't ready. I was wrong, and could be wrong again.

Since I don't know how much input McDaniels/O'Brien had in their rookie seasons as "coordinator", and I don't know how much progress Belichick saw from them in comparison, I can't answer your questions here.

Then again, neither can you, yet you keep posting on it as if your slant against O'Brien is factual, when it's not.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's be clear. My criticism is that we didn't have a qualified coordinator in 2009. If Obrien didn't have much input, then the criticism should be better placed on the Front Office for not hiring on OC. However, I though that Obrein was expected to fill the gap (as josh did) in the hope that he could be named OC for the 2010 season.

In any case, do YOU think that Obrien should be promoted to OC for the 2010 season?
Do you think that he is anywhere near as competent as josh when he was named?

I can only refer you to my earlier post. As I noted, we don't know how much O'Brien was allowed to do, so it's not sensible to be grading him. You have no idea whether or not O'Brien was qualified. It's pretty clear that the offensive play calling was not the problem, but that's only part of the story.

As for where O'Brien was in relationship to McDaniels, again, I can only refer you to that earlier post. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that O'Brien will never be as good a coordinator as McDaniels became, but that's because McDaniels became one of the very best in the game. I'm not sure that I could think of an OC currently in the game that I'd rather have than McDaniels. People here like to overlook just how great a job he did, when he essentially designed 3 different offenses in 3 seasons, and made them all very successful over the course of their separate years.

Curiously I thought that josh wasn't ready. I was wrong, and could be wrong again.

If you were wrong then, take that into consideration and stop complaining about O'Brien at every turn. We just don't have enough information on what he was doing for complaints about him to make any sense.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Since I don't know how much input McDaniels/O'Brien had in their rookie seasons as "coordinator", and I don't know how much progress Belichick saw from them in comparison, I can't answer your questions here.

Then again, neither can you, yet you keep posting on it as if your slant against O'Brien is factual, when it's not.

While Josh was a good OC,Does anyone think Galloway would have been servicable or Aiken a viable receiving threat if Josh was still here? - I seriously doubt that.

McDaniels had some fine receiving corps when he was here, but in 2009,aside from Welker and Moss in the early part of the year, the WR corps was pathetic - there really was not much talent there, although Edelman was decent - McDaniels just like O'Brien would have had little to work with outside of a few threats and its hard not to be predictable under these circumstances.

 

[Deus Irae]

While Josh was a good OC,Does anyone think Galloway would have been servicable or Aiken a viable receiving threat if Josh was still here? - I seriously doubt that.

McDaniels had some fine receiving corps when he was here, but in 2009,aside from Welker and Moss in the early part of the year, the WR corps was pathetic - there really was not much talent there, although Edelman was decent - McDaniels just like O'Brien would have had little to work with outside of a few threats and its hard not to be predictable under these circumstances.

McDaniels showed the ability to adapt his offense once Brady went down in 2008. I actually have every confidence that he could have gotten Galloway to be a functional part of the 2009 offense. Having said that, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. The problem with the Galloway situation was really more about having an entire offseason to evaluate him and still getting it 'wrong' and then not bringing in a replacement (Matt Jones or some other receiver) and relying upon a special teams player who's no better than a WR5.

By the way, McDaniels designed an offense that got to the AFCCG in 2006, with Reche Caldwell as his WR1.

 

[Zeus]

The problem with the Galloway situation was really more about having an entire offseason to evaluate him and still getting it 'wrong'

Interesting comment on Galloway. I had come to regard him as a repeat of the failed Donald Hayes experiment. Once either one of them got on the field, they couldn't apply the concepts of the offensive scheme. Not sure just how you can tell that he couldn't do it under live game conditions during the offseason.

People seem to forget that the Galloway signing was widely regarded as an upgrade over Gaffney at the time. No question that Galloway's performance and the lack of a fallback option hurt the offense considerably - possibly the difference between being very good and great.

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting comment on Galloway. I had come to regard him as a repeat of the failed Donald Hayes experiment. Once either one of them got on the field, they couldn't apply the concepts of the offensive scheme. Not sure just how you can tell that he couldn't do it under live game conditions during the offseason.

People seem to forget that the Galloway signing was widely regarded as an upgrade over Gaffney at the time. No question that Galloway's performance and the lack of a fallback option hurt the offense considerably - possibly the difference between being very good and great.

Well, I was talking during the exhibition games about the team needing Brady and Galloway to play a lot in them. That would have helped. Galloway was basically cut loose 2 weeks into the season. There was plenty of time to bring in someone else to take the spot.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

McDaniels showed the ability to adapt his offense once Brady went down in 2008. I actually have every confidence that he could have gotten Galloway to be a functional part of the 2009 offense. Having said that, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. The problem with the Galloway situation was really more about having an entire offseason to evaluate him and still getting it 'wrong' and then not bringing in a replacement (Matt Jones or some other receiver) and relying upon a special teams player who's no better than a WR5.

By the way, McDaniels designed an offense that got to the AFCCG in 2006, with Reche Caldwell as his WR1.

While that 2006 venture is true,The difference between the 2006 team and now is that the defense was better than this years squad and while the offense got to the AFCCG,The defense was a catalyst in getting there.

This year we had a defense that sh!t the bed every time a good team came up on the schedule,If the defense did not hand out christmas gifts in the four games we gave away in the 4th quarter, we would have been on a bye and in much better shape.

 

[Deus Irae]

While that 2006 venture is true,The difference between the 2006 team and now is that the defense was better than this years squad and while the offense got to the AFCCG,The defense was a catalyst in getting there.

This year we had a defense that sh!t the bed every time a good team came up on the schedule,If the defense did not hand out christmas gifts in the four games we gave away in the 4th quarter, we would have been on a bye and in much better shape.

The defense has nothing to do with your earlier post or to my response to it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yes it worked with Josh who was a HC quality talent, who had worked in football since he was a boy, and played in college under Nick Saban.

Josh became acting OC in 2005 in his FIFTH year with the patriots, having coached on the defense, and after a yer of being QB coach under Charlie.
=================================
Obrein was a coaching assistant in 2007 and a receivers coach in 2008 under josh.

And since it had worked for Josh, surely it would work as well for Obrien???????????? Was Obrein really as ready as josh? was it really close? is it really close even now?
=================================
Casserio seemed a beter choice if an internal choice was required.

Josh didn't play in college under Saban. He didn't even play in college. He was the backup QB at John Carroll to Nick Caserio...who skipped any association to Saban choosing instead to persue his MBA at a small school. He has no defensive experience whatsoever. Josh was a graduate assistant on Saban's Michigan State staff for one season before Bill hired him. O'Brien was already a college OC at Ga. Tech by that time... Dean Pees was Saban's Michigan State DC for 3 years as well as a college HC with over 30 years experience and was apparently a chopped liver hire here after two seasons including a championship one here as a position coach. I love the moving goalposts here.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The defense has nothing to do with your earlier post or to my response to it.

You may not understand what I am trying to say...

What I am saying is that this years defense combined with the 2006 offense if they were together in that year would NOT have made it to the AFCCG...The defense overshadowed the fact that Reche Caldwell was the leading reciever and the offense overall was ordinary and the defense was key to getting to THAT game...this years defense on that years offense would probably have not gone far - McDaniels gets credit for a portion of the team getting there that year, but the defense is what made the difference IMO -....Until the D tired out in the 4th and the offense sputtering for most of that 2nd half.

 

[Deus Irae]

You may not understand what I am trying to say...

What I am saying is that this years defense combined with the 2006 offense if they were together in that year would NOT have made it to the AFCCG...The defense overshadowed the fact that Reche Caldwell was the leading reciever and the offense overall was ordinary and the defense was key to getting to THAT game...this years defense on that years offense would probably have not gone far - McDaniels gets credit for a portion of the team getting there that year, but the defense is what made the difference IMO -....Until the D tired out in the 4th and the offense sputtering for most of that 2nd half.

I fully understood what you posted. I responded to it. You then went off on the defense, which was irrelevant.

While Josh was a good OC,Does anyone think Galloway would have been servicable or Aiken a viable receiving threat if Josh was still here? - I seriously doubt that.

McDaniels had some fine receiving corps when he was here, but in 2009,aside from Welker and Moss in the early part of the year, the WR corps was pathetic - there really was not much talent there, although Edelman was decent - McDaniels just like O'Brien would have had little to work with outside of a few threats and its hard not to be predictable under these circumstances.

That was your post. Defense is completely irrelevant.

 

[mgteich]

Josh was a receiver for John Carroll after getting beaten out by Casserio for the qb position. He and Casserio were close friends. He was brought to the patriots by DaBoll a friend from when Josh was an coaching assistant under Saban.

And while had no college experience on the defense he was a defensive coach and assistant for three year for the patriots.
=================================

We all have different views with regards to need nfl experience befoer being an nfl coordinator. I didn't think that josh was experienced enough. I certainly don't think Obrien is experienced enough. He seems muich less especienced than josh was. In any case, I was wrong about josh, and could be wrong about Obrein.

If Obrien is named OC, then my only choices are to believe that Belichick has totally lost ir or that I am worng once again, and that the issues on the offense in 2009 had nothing to do with Obrien's competence or inexperience.

Pees had enough experience. The question was whether he was able enough and whether he had the cojones to stand up to Belichick. In the end, he did a reasonable job. Pees fulfilled his contract and was not rehired. We can argue about how much either wanted Pees to stay. I don't see the point.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/sports/football/30patriots.html?_r=1

Josh didn't play in college under Saban. He didn't even play in college. He was the backup QB at John Carroll to Nick Caserio...who skipped any association to Saban choosing instead to persue his MBA at a small school. He has no defensive experience whatsoever. Josh was a graduate assistant on Saban's Michigan State staff for one season before Bill hired him. O'Brien was already a college OC at Ga. Tech by that time... Dean Pees was Saban's Michigan State DC for 3 years as well as a college HC with over 30 years experience and was apparently a chopped liver hire here after two seasons including a championship one here as a position coach. I love the moving goalposts here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Josh was a receiver for John Carroll after getting beaten out by Casserio for the qb position. He and Casserio were close friends. He was brought to the patriots by DaBoll a friend from when Josh was an coaching assistant under Saban.

And while had no college experience on the defense he was a defensive coach and assistant for three year for the patriots.
=================================

We all have different views with regards to need nfl experience befoer being an nfl coordinator. I didn't think that josh was experienced enough. I certainly don't think Obrien is experienced enough. He seems muich less especienced than josh was. In any case, I was wrong about josh, and could be wrong about Obrein.

If Obrien is named OC, then my only choices are to believe that Belichick has totally lost ir or that I am worng once again, and that the issues on the offense in 2009 had nothing to do with Obrien's competence or inexperience.

Pees had enough experience. The question was whether he was able enough and whether he had the cojones to stand up to Belichick. In the end, he did a reasonable job. Pees fulfilled his contract and was not rehired. We can argue about how much either wanted Pees to stay. I don't see the point.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/sports/football/30patriots.html?_r=1

People seem to be overlooking the fact that O'Brien was an Qb coach and OC in the ACC for 12 years. He may be need a little more experience as a NFL-grade OC, but it's not like he was creating .avi files of game tapes and making popcorn for BB in 2005.

Hes either a good playcaller, can become one or is not at the pro level. BB needs to decide.

 

[deroc5050]

Joey Galloway was the sole reason for the Patriots topsy turvy year. I was expecting the offense to completely cover the cracks in the defense and win the Superbowl, taking all before them with Galloway the key component.

I had coffee mugs, t-shirts, hats and posters all emblazoned with Galloway and the Patriots Superbowl run.

******* Galloway.

I feel the whole team sucked at certain points this year.. if it wasnt the defensive secondary than it was the offensive line if it wasnt the offensive line it was the quarterback... if it wasnt the quarterback than it was the recievers.. etc etc.. they put together very few complete games all year. And honestly I think this team lacked heart and determination.

although we are spoiled to a degree I had a hard time watching this team play this year.. of course alot of that had to do with pre concieved notions that this was the best team in the NFL.

 

[Patjew]

I agree with everyone's sentiments about Galloway.