Joe Montana to Steve Young II?

[InBillITrust]

I don't think Bill will let Tom go for the next 2-3 years. I think he'll probably try to trade Jimmy for a king's ransom, and then spend another 3rd rounder next year on another potential QB prospect.

 

[Rob0729]

Disagree completely. You dont trade franchise QB's, ever. Especially young qbs on rookie contracts.

And looking at how Arizona played Jameis Winston yesterday, elevates Jimmy performance week 1 even more.

Except the only franchise QB the Pats have until proven otherwise is Brady.

We have no idea if Garoppolo is a franchise QB or a flash in the pan.

 

[Marqui]

Then when Brady does decline, you end up like the Dolphins and Bills. 20 years and hundreds of QB's later, you're still looking for the guy....

We dont want to be that team.

Yes because Garappolo is the only good QB left in the future of mankind

And it's not up to the team. He's long gone after next year.

 

[AzorianPats]

So pushing the guy who has gotten you to the SB out the door early because you think you have the next HOF QB ready to go makes sense?

Tony, I never said trade Brady. I just said you cant trade Jimmy.

 

[AzorianPats]

Yes because Garappolo is the only good QB left in the future of mankind

And it's not up to the team. He's long gone after next year.

Lol you see the rest of the league? Sure seems like hes the only good up and coming one.

And hes under contract next year..

 

[AzorianPats]

Except the only franchise QB the Pats have until proven otherwise is Brady.

We have no idea if Garoppolo is a franchise QB or a flash in the pan.

Rob, you're not wrong. This is still Brady's team, this year and next. Im just saying you cant trade Jimmy.

Rob, you're a smart fan. Does it look like JG a flash on the pan? He looks legit man. Even if you only think hes the guy, thats worth not trading. Franchise qbs dont grow on trees.

 

[UK_Pat37]

If the Pats franchise or pay market value for Jimmy in 2018, they'll be utterly crippling their cap. It's simply not an option. The options are to move forward with Brady or move forward with Jimmy. This decision cannot be postponed past 2017.

This is spot on.

Something I've said for a couple of years now. Whilst it's a gross overreaction to have suggested a 4-0 start for Jimmy G would have been justification to contemplate moving on, when Jimmy G comes up for renewal it really isn't that far fetched to suggest the Pats may make a shock decision.

There comes a point where you've got to trade in short term success for the longer term and a much wider picture. Brady is not playing for another five years. Isn't happening.

 

[Tony2046]

Tony, I never said trade Brady. I just said you cant trade Jimmy.

My apologies.

I'm ok with keeping JG but if it comes time to make a choice between the two and Brady is still playing at an elite level then I'm still sticking with him.

It's tough enough to win a SB with an elite QB and would like to see the Pats rack up as many trophies as possible before he retires.

 

[AzorianPats]

Another thing...

There's a mental part to being a QB. There's no tougher act than following a LEGEND like Brady. JG not phased by that. Dudes got balls!!

 

[AzorianPats]

My apologies.

I'm ok with keeping JG but if it comes time to make a choice between the two and Brady is still playing at an elite level then I'm still sticking with him.

It's tough enough to win a SB with an elite QB and would like to see the Pats rack up as many trophies as possible before he retires.

Man I dunno...

You want to go with the young stud, but the other guy is still Tom Brady. Its a tough call, but its a good situation to be in.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, you're not wrong. This is still Brady's team, this year and next. Im just saying you cant trade Jimmy.

Rob, you're a smart fan. Does it look like JG a flash on the pan? He looks legit man. Even if you only think hes the guy, thats worth not trading. Franchise qbs dont grow on trees.

We don't know what Garoppolo is. He was just good vs. the Cards and was outstanding for less than a half yesterday. People ignore that the Dolphins started to figure him out a bit before he got injured. Who knows how he would have played for a full game.

In 2013, Nick Foles threw for 27 TDs and 2 INTs in 13 games for the Eagles and was the "It" QB. Three years later, he is a back up in Kansas City.

Matt Flynn in his first ever start against the Patriots in 2009 , he threw for 3 TDs and 1 INT. He is a street free agent now.

In his first game in the NFL, Marcus Mariota completed 86.7% of his passes with 4 TDs and 0 INTs. He finished the season with a 62.2 completion percentage, 19 TDs, and 10 INTs. He still hasn't shown signs of the guy he was in his first game.

RGIII was offensive rookie of the year in 2012 and now looks like he may be done with his second team.

You cannot judge a QB on a game and a half worth of film. Neither the Cards nor the Dolphins were playing press man and bumping the Pats' receivers off the line (which gives a Hall of Famer in Brady fits at times). Both teams mostly played zone which is the wrong defense to run vs. the Patriots' offense no matter who the QB is.

Before I think Garoppolo is the QB of the future, I want to see him go against a defense who will consistently know the Pats' receivers off their routes and force Garoppolo go through his progressions. That is when his weaknesses will be magnified since he does have the propensity to hold onto the ball too long when his first or second read isn't open.

 

[PatriotsReign]

too bad jimmy's season is over. i enjoyed watching him

Man you're eating your own poop now

 

[Gronkowski123]

Man you're eating your own poop now

jimmy won't start again unless tom gets hurt.

 

[Gronk]

Thanks. But the website you provide seems to support what I'm saying. If you put in "post june 1 cut", you get dead money of $13M in 2017, $7M in 2018 and $7M in 2019. That's totally doable. Am I doing something wrong?

Well I think that part is actually wrong, in that I believe the two out years would both accelerate to 2018 in your example (so, dead money totals $13m in '17, $14m in '18). And the June 1 thing is a little more complex than just a different way to splice the money up - you can only use it on certain contracts (older than one "league" year), and you can't spend the money that it frees up until June 2 so a big number like TB's could still prevent them from signing other players in that time.

Point being, if we're talking about post-2017 - they may be unable to sign JG to a big contract or franchise him while also carrying Brady's money after they've done everything else they'd normally have to do between now and then. The 2018 Patriots as of today have like $100m in estimated cap space...but that's because they only have like 4 starters, and 26 players total (mostly '15/'16 rookies) whose contracts extend that far. JG probably wouldn't look real good on that squad.

In the end, I think you and I will still disagree because it would be impossible for me to be sold on JG, or to fathom a world in which they would jettison a still-elite Brady for what is a still unproven commodity. I think you're right that they could find a way to make the money work....after 2017 at least, next year would be more problematic. One thing I'd say you've helped clarify (to me, at least) is that Brady's deal makes it actually easier for them to cut him than trade him. I never want to see him in another uniform but if they cut him before he had shown any sign of decline - let's remember, but for OL/RB injuries this guy may well have been the MVP and leader of an undefeated team again last year, and he almost single-handedly dragged an undermanned squad to a road win against a great defense, Peyton's legacy, and the refs in the AFCCG - of course I would still root for the team, but they'd have made their own bed, as they say.

Jimmy Garoppolo is a theoretically great QB. Tom Brady is the actual, goddamn GOAT. I'd like to ask Jerry Reinsdorf of the Chicago Bulls if he could go back in time - would he still trade a shot at a 4 or 5-peat by keeping Jordan/Pippen/Jackson in 1999 instead of trading them and/or forcing them into retirement so they could begin the Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler era? It seemed like such a sure thing, because you know, the organization wins championships, and they just had to move on no matter how great the team was. I'll take BB at his word, "it's a players game", and as long as he's got the best damn football player that's ever lived I don't think he's letting him go anywhere.

 

[letekro]

Well I think that part is actually wrong, in that I believe the two out years would both accelerate to 2018 in your example (so, dead money totals $13m in '17, $14m in '18). And the June 1 thing is a little more complex than just a different way to splice the money up - you can only use it on certain contracts (older than one "league" year), and you can't spend the money that it frees up until June 2 so a big number like TB's could still prevent them from signing other players in that time.

Point being, if we're talking about post-2017 - they may be unable to sign JG to a big contract or franchise him while also carrying Brady's money after they've done everything else they'd normally have to do between now and then. The 2018 Patriots as of today have like $100m in estimated cap space...but that's because they only have like 4 starters, and 26 players total (mostly '15/'16 rookies) whose contracts extend that far. JG probably wouldn't look real good on that squad.

In the end, I think you and I will still disagree because it would be impossible for me to be sold on JG, or to fathom a world in which they would jettison a still-elite Brady for what is a still unproven commodity. I think you're right that they could find a way to make the money work....after 2017 at least, next year would be more problematic. One thing I'd say you've helped clarify (to me, at least) is that Brady's deal makes it actually easier for them to cut him than trade him. I never want to see him in another uniform but if they cut him before he had shown any sign of decline - let's remember, but for OL/RB injuries this guy may well have been the MVP and leader of an undefeated team again last year, and he almost single-handedly dragged an undermanned squad to a road win against a great defense, Peyton's legacy, and the refs in the AFCCG - of course I would still root for the team, but they'd have made their own bed, as they say.

Jimmy Garoppolo is a theoretically great QB. Tom Brady is the actual, goddamn GOAT. I'd like to ask Jerry Reinsdorf of the Chicago Bulls if he could go back in time - would he still trade a shot at a 4 or 5-peat by keeping Jordan/Pippen/Jackson in 1999 instead of trading them and/or forcing them into retirement so they could begin the Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler era? It seemed like such a sure thing, because you know, the organization wins championships, and they just had to move on no matter how great the team was. I'll take BB at his word, "it's a players game", and as long as he's got the best damn football player that's ever lived I don't think he's letting him go anywhere.

Nice post. My position assumes that the Patriots project Garoppalo out to be a good QB. I have no idea whether that is true. My position was the same with Mallett, who, clearly, they did not project in that way. I'm only saying that the Pats have flexibility to get rid of Brady and assuming they have a good projection for Grop, they would choose a talented 25 year old that they can make a star in their system over a 40 year old, no matter how good the 40 year old still is. Some people in this thread (not you) are making the mistake of forgetting hat a significant part of BB's job is projecting talent out 3-5 years into the future and developing it. A tremendous amount of his success derives from his ability to do this better than anyone in the league.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

there is an old saying 'don't chase after 2 bunnies.' more i think about this topic, more i lean toward BB doing the inevitable year early - letting brady go after 2017 season and keep jimmy g.

that's very BB thing to do, unfortunately.

 

[Brady6]

there is an old saying 'don't chase after 2 bunnies.' more i think about this topic, more i lean toward BB doing the inevitable year early - letting brady go after 2017 season and keep jimmy g.

that's very BB thing to do, unfortunately.

Quote me on this - Robert Kraft will never allow Tom Brady to be traded or released. You can all continue to believe Belichick calls the shots because he let some very good players go but that is not comparable to Tom Brady.

It will never happen and I will wager with anyone on this board who thinks otherwise.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Quote me on this - Robert Kraft will never allow Tom Brady to be traded or released. You can all continue to believe Belichick calls the shots because he let some very good players go but that is not comparable to Tom Brady.

It will never happen and I will wager with anyone on this board who thinks otherwise.

How much do you want to wager?

My heavy gambling days are over so let's keep it light.

 

[Gronk]

Quote me on this - Robert Kraft will never allow Tom Brady to be traded or released. You can all continue to believe Belichick calls the shots because he let some very good players go but that is not comparable to Tom Brady.

It will never happen and I will wager with anyone on this board who thinks otherwise.

I agree - with the caveat that if there comes some point where Brady objectively "sucks", but still wants to play rather than retire, I could see them releasing him with their blessing. I don't think he's going anywhere while he's still competent to win football games.

 

[Brady6]

How much do you want to wager?

My heavy gambling days are over so let's keep it light.

$100? $50? Not sure what is heavy to you.