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JJ: Colts OL coach "Best in league at FILMING signals"

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BigMike, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So says Jimmy Johnson, who also admitted to cheating (filming)

    "Howard Mudd, who currently serves as the offensive line coach with the Colts, saying that Johnson "was the best in the entire league at stealing signals." He was talking about FILMING FILMING FILMING signals.....sorry for any miscommunication...

    per pft.com

    Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?

    JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you're going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.

    Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?

    JJ: Yeah.

    Q: Oh you did.

    JJ: That's what I'm saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimers scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that's how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  2. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    The title and the body of your post aren't synched up with each other.

    Just who is the pinning the label onto whom?
     
  3. djmika760

    djmika760 Banned

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    It wasnt cheating until it the rule was imposed on sep. 6th 2006.
     
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    It still isn't cheating - that's the point. The Patriots, nor the Colts, cheated - the Patriots just had an illegally placed camera.
     
  5. Keegs

    Keegs In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    This is truly a sad day for the NFL.
     
  6. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    STEALING SIGNALS IS NOT ILLEGAL. This fundamental misunderstanding is a huge part of what is fueling this (non)story.
     
  7. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    This title is misleading. Jimmy's entire conversation (in a radio interview posted here earlier) was about filming signals. Moderator, please change thread title to:

    Colts O Line Coach "Best in NFL at filming signals"
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  8. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at FILMING signals"

    title fixed, thanks
     
  9. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at FILMING signals"

    he doesnt do it any more if the colts still video taped it isnt his job ne more
     
  10. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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  11. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at FILMING signals"

    Two weeks ago, FOX's Jimmy Johnson admitted on the network's pregame show that he engaged in the same type of cheating that got the Pats in trouble during a Week One win over the Jets. (The topic was one of the ten that some Internet hack addressed on SportingNews.com after Week Two.)
     
  12. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Patsfans best on the Internet at posting misleading information

    Title "fixed" so it is MISLEADING. Unless someone here has actually heard JJ say Mudd filmed signals.

    Because the PFT blurb does NOT say Mudd was filming. It says he was the best at STEALING SIGNALS. Which is allowed if you are not using a camera.

    It makes enormous sense that an offensive line coach would stand there and watch the opponents' signals and try to figure them out. It makes no sense that an offensive line coach would actually film them. No sense at all. Maybe the JJ meant someone else filmed them and he was best at deciphering them later, but that's not the same thing either.

    The title is NOW misleading. It makes Patsfans look like idjots.
     
  13. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    There was no new rule, show me the memo where it says it's a new rule, or even an article that claims it was new. The 2006 memo was a reminder, I've already posted all the new rules since 1993 and explained how the commissioner can't impose rules by himself. Where does that leave the new rule BS?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    What would be cheating?
     
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Patsfans best on the Internet at posting misleading information

    Filming, stealing, the difference doesn't matter to me.

    If the Patriots "cheated", the camera was just the method to the "cheating" of stealing signs. Not against the rules but, according to the haters, against the rules of sportsmanship.

    OK fine.

    In that case Mudd's method of stealing signs, whatever it is, is also against the rules of sportsmanship. And if it isn't then neither is what the Patriots did and we got b!tch slapped for the illegal placement of a camera.

    They can't have it both ways.
     
  16. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Colts O Line Coach 'Best in league at stealing signals"

    Paying off a ref would be. Illegally placing a camera ? How about wearing the socks too high ? That's illegal too.
     
  17. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: Patsfans best on the Internet at posting misleading information

    Nope, it's correct. Like I said, the conversation was about FILMING, and just quoting the stealing signals part is incorrect.

    Q: Did you ever steal signals?

    JJ: Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did.

    Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?

    JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you're going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.

    Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?

    JJ: Yeah.

    Q: Oh you did.

    JJ: That's what I'm saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimers scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that's how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.

    Q: Where'd you put your guy who was videotaping? Where was he?

    JJ: My guy was up with my camera crew in the press box. So you'd just put an extra camera up with your camera crew in the press box who zoomed in on the signal callers. That's the best way to do it, but anyway you can't always do that because the press box camera crew might be on the same side as the opposing team.
    If they're on the same side as the opposing team that's when you need to do it from the sideline.

    Q: Also with some operations and some teams they have equipment set up within the stadium so they can just run it ack and check what's going on during the game anyway.

    JJ: Oh I'll tell you [laughing] some of the stuff that goes on it's almost comical.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  18. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks for backing me up against the Alamo, who needs to read clearly before throwing insults about Patriots fans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Patsfans best on the Internet at posting misleading information

    Like I said, it's logically equivalent to me. If the usage of the filmed signs is so awful then the acquisition of the signs is equally awful however acquired. If the method of acquiring the signs is what's so awful then we just have an illegally placed camera.
     
  20. kolbitr

    kolbitr Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I still think that the people so crazed and offended over this are missing the point...I suspect that BB would watch these tapes in his off time, such as in the offseason, looking for tendencies, looking for patterns and habits, the way that experienced tennis players will watch videos of their opponents to spot tendencies and habits in their game. I also suspect that for BB, a lifelong student of defensive football, these signal patterns came to resemble something like a language, one that he felt he could read, and one which certainly hardly anyone else would have been able to benefit from.

    I'm not claiming that he could do this--obviously, many people used this sort of video for the primary purpose of benefits asap, and its primary value was probably middling. But although many people have come forward and said that although the practice is old and widespread, and yet is of middling value, many others have asked why BB would do something if it was of little value--the assumption being that such an effort must have resulted in enormous advantages. I believe the first group (such as Jimmy Johnson) is correct, that such taping is of little proven benefit; but I also would not be surprised to discover that BB found some intellectual pleasure in the effort to find a kind of submerged pattern in the signal calls of other team's coordinators.

    Ahh...it's just a thought.
     

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