Jimmy Johnson helps to frame things properly

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by fgssand, Feb 14, 2008.

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  1. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    A certain well respected member of the media (yes, there are a few and this guy is #1), Mr. Mike Reiss reminded me of what a very successful NFL head coach recently said.

    I subscribe to the Jimmy Johnson School of Analysis on this one, and here is what he had to say at the Super Bowl:

    “The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody – and I mean everybody – went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion. That’s just part of the game, that’s stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long. When I came into the NFL, back in ’89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said here’s what we do ‘we videotape the opposing team’s signals and then we synch it up with the game film.’ So I did it.

    “I know when I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you’re supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that],” Johnson said. “They said they’ve always done this. So I said, OK let’s go ahead and do it. Then the league said ‘hey, we hear you’re doing that, so don’t do it any more.’

    “The point I’m making – I’m not trying to say everybody is cheaters – is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say ‘how far can you go without breaking the rules.’ … When I coached the Cowboys, we didn’t have this kind of scrutiny. We didn’t have this kind of visibility. Thirty years ago, they really didn’t have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do – that’s why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.

    “Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it’s almost making statement that ‘I’ve got to do it because of who it is.’ I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that’s why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that.”
  2. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Of course he couldn't be more right, but asking the mainstream media to take that tact would be like trying to housetrain a hippopotamus. Most of the media has absolutely no interest in diminishing a scandal unless they're forcibly compelled to by an overwhelming preponderance of fact. Spygate sells, and it makes easy copy, so until they are given a reason not to, the media is going to beat this thing to it's absolute dying breath.

    If you took the front page of ESPN.com and looked at all the main site headlines over the last year, I guarantee you that the proportion dedicated to scandal (Spygate, Steroids, Tim Donaghy) as opposed to actual coverage of sports would absolutely shock you. That's just the way it is.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  3. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

    you should mail your post to every media outlet you can. then tell them to ram it up their @ss. then you should go to as many message boards of other teams and tell them to ram it up their @ss.
  4. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

    #24 Jersey

    The NFL could have minimized it from the beginning, but instead chose the self-aggrandizing power-trip approach. Press ate it up. FAns ate it up. No going back. Commish blew it here by trying to "send a message".
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Like I've said on many threads, Paul Brown "illegally" connected a microphone to Otto Graham with no cutoff time. He was caught and the league scambled to ban it. Players, coaches, they're all on the edge on what they can get away with. This is no big deal whatsoever to me.
  6. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    That's absolutely the crux of the issue. The "new sheriff in town" approach backfired and by the time Gooddell realized what he'd done, it was too late to rein this thing back in.
  7. PAPatsjunkie

    PAPatsjunkie On the Game Day Roster

    Is there a link to this?
  8. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

    This really is nothing new.

    Jimmy Johnson has been saying this since September. He said it in a Super Bowl week press conference.

    The press just don't care. It doesn't fit their agenda.
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Jimmy Johnson deserves some real props for sticking to his beliefs and sticking up for a friend. It'd be easy to keep quiet and stay out of it - he's putting his rep on the line to defend his friend and defend the truth and facts of how the game is played.
  10. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #87 Jersey

    I fargin' love Jimmy Johnson!
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  11. vyrago

    vyrago In the Starting Line-Up

    Why do I think that this is not the best way to generate and open-minded review of the facts? Just me, I guess.
  12. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    can't say i'm a big jimmy fan. think he was highly over rated as a coach and beneficiary of a windfall trade with the vikings. but he's right on this. the problem really is the media doesn't like bellichik. he doesn't talk much and he's not funny, so he doesn't provide them much material. he's just a winner. he's everything they hate
  13. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    Absolutley the case. Since Goddell took over he had made it his mision to be a stiff hard nosed comish with regards to player conduct. Than this happened and he didn't want to come off as soft even though he had to know the true depth of video taping in the NFL.

    Instead he came off has the hard nose guy he wants to be and completely left the Patriots out to dry so that he could protect his hard nosed image.

    Than when he could have made the Patriots look not so bad by admiting how much the NFL practices video taping he chose to protect he NFL shield rather than softing the Patriot bashing.

    There is so much Goodell could have done to bury this but instead he tried to use it for his advantage and it may have worked for him too. Not sure if that is how I want my comish to act but he has really made himself look the way he wanted thru this whole thing.
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Exactly. And based on that framework which Goodell admittedly was unfamiliar with at the time he initially dealt with something so many seem to want him to revisit now, this is what he should do in revisiting it.

    Admit a commissioner new to his job who was taking substantial heat from the union and in some cases the media for coming down hard on players whose off field behavior was tarnishing the shield was unduly influenced by vocal cross section of people who resented the hell out of Bill Belichick's (and to a lesser extent Bob Kraft's) success for reasons unrelated to the issue at hand. And not being a football guy himself, not to mention being pissed off that he perceived this as a slap at his authority committed in his own backyard, Goodell over reacted under the guise of further sending a message. His punishment allowed those who desperately wanted to make more of this than it actually was to proceed based on the rationale that unprecedented penalties = unprecedented offenses. Sorry but cheating the cap to maintain a Superbowl winning offense, twice, was a lot more damaging to the integrity of the game than taping defensive handsignals everyone in the stadium can see from an illegal position. And the penalty for that was no fine and the loss of 3rd and 5th round draft choices. And apparently that penalty was sufficiently effective since we haven't seen any more of that behavior since.

    Goodell should fall on his sword to put an end to this, and maybe if he did he would end up reclaiming his authority. He should revisit his decision and rescind the monetary penalty that management in Denver and SF did not face, dock us a 3rd rounder this year, make it clear that the penalty was levied for a totality of behavior regarding video taping infractions, stipulate that any FUTURE infractions by this or any other NFL team will be dealt with exponentially more severely and state that if evidence of more eggregious violations such as in-game use of taped signal stealing or tampering with in-game audio equipment or team miking of players or tampering with players under contract is uncovered he will personally undertake a league wide investigation of those practices. He should also note that the damage done to the Patriots brand has far exceeded his intent in penalizing the procedural rules infraction in question.

    He's tried to backpedal by doing things like mentioning how he now realizes that stealing signals is part of the game and any coach worth his salt knows this and changes them accordingly. He pointed out that a coach on one tape was waving to the camera indicating he was well aware he was being taped. He has stated that no competitive advantage was gained through the use of video tape based on the explanation of use Belichick gave him and the corroberating evidence that backed up that contention, and therefore no championship performances were impacted. He has also stated that he is aware of rumors that other organizations were taping and perhaps using those tapes to gain an actual in game advantage.

    But as innocuous as he now tries to make it sound, the fact that he imposed the penalty he did remains the touchstone for those who refuse to let this go. It has to be big because he made it big. And he created the witch hunt mentality by assuaging his early critics who wanted Belichick gone via suspension by leaving the door open for information or inuendo on further infractions. Nobody is even sure that spying on an opponent's practices is prohibited by rule in the NFL in part because the NFL doesn't make those rules readily available. Yet we now have a media driven whack job in congress wanting to investigate allegations of the existence of such a tape even as the source in question has never actually admitted one exists.

    He also needs to state that he is uncomfortable dealing with a member of congress who is publicly and apparently shamelessly using this as a means to leverage the comissioner of this league to alter it's stance on dealing with the cable industry regarding broadcast business policies.
  15. eom

    eom In the Starting Line-Up

    how was his college career?

    I like anyone who innovates.
  16. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

    I blame Goodell for the PR fiasco.

    But I don't blame him for having a less than clear rule.

    Goodell said this himself in the Costas interview. When Costas asked how does the NFL police itself against high-tech gadgetry and spying, Goodell said: "This wasn't high-tech and it was in the open." He very well knows that it is a PR issue.

    He knows the NFL can't legislate against the stealing of signals. These teams are worth billions. There is a lot of high-tech stuff out there that the NFL could never ever possibly legislate against, and that's why there's nothing in the rulebook about stealing signals.

    That doesn't necessarily mean he can let everything go. He's the commissioner of a sports league. He doesn't have to behave like King Solomon or a judge.

    That being said, our first round draft choice was much much too harsh a punishment. Circumventing the league's salary cap resulted in the loss of a 3rd rounder. That was much much worse than this.
  17. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    no championships @ oklahoma. suffered embaressing loss to boston university when his team was leading 20 - 3 with 3 minutes remaining in 4th quarter.

    one championship @ U of M riding the fumes of the program built by Howard Schnellenberger, who was the 1st coach to win a championship there. but of course no one remembers that since JJ and his classless style brought all the attention to him.
  18. neuronet

    neuronet In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    Many thanks for sharing that wonderful quote. I feel just sick today. I hate that mother F-er specter.
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Have felt all along that when the Pats provided the tapes it showed wide spread violation of rules by most of the other teams, to protect the "integrity of the league" he destroyed the tapes in hopes it would go away. His initial rush to judgement kicked him in the ass.. he should have at that point made it all public and explained this is the way it used to be, but now we have a new sheriff.. Goodell made a bunch of strategic errors in this case, and how he is sharing the pain along with BB.

    BB is taking the bullet and the high road, with his connections he could testify for days on cheating and dirty tricks played in his tenure during the NFL. What needs to happen is other coaches need to come forth and back up BB and Jimmy Johnson. Goodell should be thankful his rush to judgement was against a man like BB instead of some other coach who would drag others down. OTOH I wish BB would say something, but then again that would not make him BB.
  20. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

    Jimmy not only made the trade, he then picked good players with the picks they got. He wasn't a beneficiary. He was the architect.
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