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"Jimmy Carter would have made that call..." But Mitt wouldn't.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When asked whether he, too, would have sent in the Seals to get Bin Laden, Romney answered, "Of course. Jimmy Carter would have made that call."

    However, during the 2008 campaign, Obama said if he had a clear shot at Bin Laden in Pakistan, he'd take the shot. Romney was asked then if he would, and he said "No, I wouldn't enter an ally."

    By the way, Jimmy Carter made a similar call, trying a daring rescue mission... that failed.

    These are all facts.

    Here is my opinion:

    For all the dummies saying it's a no-brainer, no it's not. That's pretty much what made Bush let him go in Tora Bora -- the prospect of failure (along with the prospect of success, knowing that it takes the steam out of your wars if you actually win.)

    Okay, that's the incontrovertible truth in the first part, and that's my opinion in the last paragraph. Now spin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have a link for the Romney quote?

    No fan of Romney but I understand that he was referring to announcing attacks publicly by drones in places like Pakistan as opposed to doing strikes covertly to avoid putting the other countries leaders in a pricarious position.

    So a link to his statement would be appreciated... contet and 'nuaince' could be important here.
     
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    8/4/07
    Romney attacks Obama over Pakistan warning | Reuters
     
  4. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    This is a dumb thread..........

    Every circumstance relies on information presented at the time the event occurs. Carter made a call he should not have........ Obama made a call he should have. Each worked out the way you would have expected it to have.

    Romney, who I am not a huge fan of, has not been faced with this kind of decision so it's impossible to determine how he would work. He might pull the trigger, of he might not. You will only know, or not know based on info they give you anyway.
     
  5. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    Here's the problem with your logic. Musharraf was more of an ally than the current rulers of Pakistan and at the time of that quote, it made sense not to upset the internal politics of Pakistan. He was ousted/resigned in August 2008 and what has transpired since then has caused Pakistan to be more hostile and less friendly. Everything has to be taken in perspective.
    Oh and the Jimmy Carter reference, he (Carter)ruled out military action immediately after the Iranian hostages were taken, effectively ensuring that they would be captive for a while. Only after repeated attacks by both Republicans and his Democratic opponent Ted Kennedy did he finally order the raid , nearly 5 months later...
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Yawn....there's only door #1 people.
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nut-uh this is a smart thread.

    If each worked out the way you would have expected it to have, why didn't Carter expect the risk he took to work out the way it did?

    Oh I'm sorry, in your world, neither actor took a risk since the outcome was known to all in advance.

    Or, is it the case that either decision had some chance of failure and some chance of success?

    Romney announced ahead of time that he would not pull the trigger, and then, after someone with an actual pair got the job done, said of course he would have too.

    Of course, the courage to give the order is not courage at all, since all outcomes are known in advance. There are either self-destructive people like Carter, who apparently intended to doom the people on the mission, and people like Obama who make an easy call to go after a guy with boots on the ground, because everybody knew exactly what the outcome would be.

    But since it's such an easy call, how come everybody was advising him not to do it???

    The bin Laden Situation Room revisited – One year later – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

    How can it be a gutsy call, when everybody knows how it will turn out?

    :confused2:

    Fahgettaboutit. Just ask yourself in the voting booth who you want making that decision when the phone rings at 3 in the morning...

    PFnV
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  8. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The question was built around Musharraf not acting. Obviously if Osama had turned up in Canada we wouldn't of had to invade. A simple phone call to the Canadian authorities with the proof would have been enough for them to act. This is because Canada is an actual ally.

    In defending Romney you're willing to extend ally status to Musharraf regardless of his actions. I'd state that any nation that would harbor Osama is automatically not an ally.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's see 247 Marines were killed by Hezbollah during the watch of Ronald Reagan in Lebanon, and he did nothing except withdraw the marines.....

    GB I had Saddam Hussein on the run, and he took his foot off of the throttle..

    GB II had Osama Bin Laden in his sights in Tora Bora, and no one would make the call from inside the Beltway..

    There has been precedence for not doing something, so when something is finally done it should be remembered.. god knows there has been enough embarassment on the world stage recently.
     
  10. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

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    I personally think that this topic is a great example of how bad this political season has been and will continue to be.

    The demise of OBL a year ago was an event in our history that regardless of the morbidness of it (someone being killed) was a great unifying event for our country.

    A common enemy to at least 99.9% of our citizens was brought to justice; the type of justice which is only found at the business end of 5.56 NATO round. It was a daring raid by the best military personal we as a country can offer, and honestly was a ballsy call by the POTUS.

    However (and sadly in my opinion), the whole event is going to be used as a political hacky sack in the perpetual game of "nah-nah-nah-nah-boo-boo" that our political leaders play. Sound bites and bumper stickers for all!

    I am no fan of either person running, so in every sense of the phrase, "I don't have a horse in this race", but the facts are that Obama made the call (good for him), and Romney was in no position to make that call. What he would have done given the same spot in space and time (being POTUS and locating OBL) is nothing more than a what if...

    We are all (maybe giving some too much credit :) ) intelligent people, who clearly care about politics - why else venture into this subforum?....are we all to the point of "well my guy did it....and your guy said 4 years ago (which in Pakistani political years may have well been a lifetime ago) that he wouldn't have"?

    Let's stick to facts...rather than painting unknowns with partial substance.

    Carter, Bush I and II didn't do enough to varying degrees - booo those men.

    Obama got his man... hooray

    Romney....who knows. We know what he said then (4 years ago) and know what he said now....but that means nothing.

    We have people, some who actually became POTUS, who said one thing and did another, sprinkled throughout our history. But to pretend that either quote accurately represents what a President Romney would do when the cards are on the table is folly to this reader.

    Having said all of this, I'm the naive one; to think that these games will ever be a thing of the past. We deserve these two clowns. Our national ADD is built for 10 second sound bites and quotes...nothing more.
     
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Definately NOT a smart thread...definately not...

    I'm a good driver....time for judge wapner!
     
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Great post, but I don't know why we're torturing ourselves over all of this.:bricks: There's another thread going on about who's got the most effective campaign slogan. The winner of that contest is who I'm going with.:D
     
  13. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    My point was that Musharraf was in charge when Romney made the comment and he was more of an ally than those in charge of Pakistan in May 2011 when Bin Laden was killed. Who knows whether Musharraf would have been more supportive but it's comparing apples to apples due to a change in leadership over there and a change in support of the US anti-terrorism efforts vis a vis the ISI?
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is right, "Who Knows" a whole lot of conjecture and qualification for "Etch a Sketch"...
     
  15. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Dumb thread.

    Let's talk about how Obama swore he'd close GITMO.

    How's GITMO doing?
     
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Given all the garbage threads that are started in this forum, it's amusing to see people coming out to label this one as stupid.

    Was alternating b/t espn and fox news yesterday (owner of gym is a rightie), and it appeared that the fox hosts were criticizing Obama for killing bin laden rather than capturing him. Funny stuff.

    if Bush had killed him the pubbies would have been pushing for a Constitutional amendment and a 3rd term.
     
  17. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

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    Speaking for just me....my point was the "turning OBLs demise into a political check mark" is dumb although I expect that much.

    I also thinks it dumb to treat sounds bites (of anyone) as some sort of gospel when you remove time, space and context from it.

    That would be like my wife going through my HS yearbooks and holding stupid sh!t I wrote 11+ years ago against me now.

    EDIT - However Chico, I do agree wholeheartedly with your opening line.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  18. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    LOL.......

    why didn't you say something about Clinton?
    - WTC bombing in 1993
    - twin embassy bombings in 1998
    - USS cole in 2000

    what was the response? blowing up an aspirin factory in Sudan

    9/11 happened because of clinton's policies
     
  19. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    in case anyone didn't notice, OBL was done anyway. any gains made by taking him out were only for show as he was no longer ochestrating anything.

    other than revenge factor, taking him out was meaningless
     
  20. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Romney is such a dipS#!t...

    Carter DID make the call, somehow he must've forgotten those pesky Iranian hostages..

    Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The episode reached a climax when, after failed attempts to negotiate a release, the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw, on April 24, 1980, which resulted in a failed mission, the deaths of eight American servicemen, one Iranian civilian, and the destruction of two aircraft.



    Keep talking MITT!
     

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