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Jim Webb's response: We will show him the way

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, Jan 24, 2007.

  1. mikey

    mikey Rookie

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/24/washington/24webb.html

    Mr. Webb invoked his own biography, and his family’s three generations of military service, as he declared that today’s soldiers could no longer trust the judgment of their commander in chief.

    Democrats would try to work with Mr. Bush to change course.

    “If he does not,” Mr. Webb said, “we will be showing him the way.”


    .
  2. wistahpatsfan

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    Jim Webb for President!
  3. All_Around_Brown

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    My thoughts exactly! This guy should have every neo-con shaking in their fairy boots.
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  5. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    Speak for yourself, Senator, I don't trust party flopping political opportunists either!
  6. Harry Boy

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    Yeah, but what about President Obama?
  7. Real World

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    I didn't see either speech, and will probably try to gloss over them later today. If Webb is indeed the traditional democrat, the moderate, sane person people said he was prior to the election, then great. My only fear is that party will derail his principles. These days, they always do.

    At any rate, I'm still waiting for the Democrats plan for Iraq. GW's moves have been rightfully ripped to shreds to this point, but I've yet to see what it is the Dems want to do. When Webb says "we will be showing him the way", am I wrong to assume he means they have a plan? Well, what is it?
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess you didn't trust Ronnie Reagan. I didn't either.
  9. Pujo

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    And don't get PFIEL started on Mitt Romney...
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  10. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    He switched parties in 1962, and supported Nixon in 1960. Not exactly the same as Webb but nice try by you, good effort.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Always excuses. Maybe you can blame Clinton?
  12. All_Around_Brown

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    The dems plan has been laid out in general terms (deescalation), but I suspect they have withheld alot of detail until they get a sense of whether the Bush cabal is honest in opening themselves up to bipartisanship. Nothing to date suggests they are.

    BTW..the Dems have been given a perfect opportunity to use real bipartisan recommendations...as opposed to the rhetorical that Bush and his neo-con con men have used...by simply supporting what Baker-Hamilton gave them- a defined set of objectives and initiatives to change the Iraq trajectory.

    Seems to me that Webb is a very strong pro-military spokesman, like Murtha, and people like PFEIL seem to really hate that. Hows that for irony? Makes one wonder whether politics is clouding their view of what trouble the military is truly in.
  13. Real World

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    Deescalation is there plan? They've withheld details? Hmm... We're honing in on 4 years, and they're still waiting for what exactly? Are you trying to tell me that the Dems do have a detailed plan, but that they are playing politics with it? Oh, I sure hope that's not true. Soldiers are dying over there, and if the Dems do have a detailed plan and are withholding it, that'd be reprehensible.

    I remember seeing Howad Dean on Hardball the night of the election in November, and Mathews asked him point blank, what is the Dems plan for Iraq, and he refused to answer it. During Dean's response, they cut to Mathews face, and I remember he was shaking his head in frustration. I'm all for people putting idea's forward, but I honestly haven't seen anything put forth by the Dems on this. If their plan is to withdraw, then why don't they all come out and say it? To date, their plan has been to point at how lousy the others guy's is. Sadly, it's worked with the general populace, but has done nothing to help the situation. Remember, I'm for whatever succeeds. GW so far hasn't done to good, but the Dems are non-existent. The war isn't a partisan issue for me. It's an american issue. I don't care if Al Gore ocmes out with a plan, so long as it works.
  14. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Would it involve a lockbox of some kind?
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  15. PressCoverage

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    perhaps their plan is to merely stop firing generals and let them actually dictate the course of action?
  16. Real World

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    What's comical about your agenda driven, and partisan position, is that GW let his generals run the show, and everyone *****ed he wasn't leading. Now, he fires guys cuz he feels he has a plan that will work (he's leading), and wants people in place who believe in it, and you're criticizing him for not letting the generals dictate the course of action. So which is it Agenda boy? Was he wrong before for letting the generals run the show, or is he wrong now for taking the lead? My guess is that, to you, he's wrong period.

    Have a nice day! :D
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How can you say Bush is letting the Generals run the show when he dismisses anyone who disagrees with him, such as Generals Garner, Casey, Abizaid, Riggs, and other radical, pinko, commie, liberals. Bush is not letting the Generals run the show, and never has; in fact, the war has mostly been run by Cheney and Rove I suspect. Right now, Bush is simply trying to save face, and if it costs a few thousand more American lives, at least he'll be able to leave the embarrassment of withdrawal to his successor. Bush is taking the lead, true, but ignoring the bipartisan consensus that calls for more focus on diplomatic measures.
  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    dear plantation owner: please do stop calling me "BOY" before things get truly personal for you...

    anyhow, you righties continue to lose the debate when you create an argument that your opponent never said... the very definition of a strawman argument, which you've perfected, RW....

    Bush NEVER let his generals fully run the show... never.... you remember when they wanted more troops to START the occupation, don't you? you remember what your president directed?
  19. Real World

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    Dude, I said, GW was blasted for letting his generals run the show, then, when he devises a plan, since everyone criticized his "stay the course", and fires the guys that were in control when he was being criticized, to hire guys that agree with his plan, people STILL criticize him.

    You suspect? You are really funny sometimes.

    I don't know why people are so enamored with the Baker Hamilton report. Just cuz two life long political people came up with a report, why would anyone be forced to use it? I really don't understand why, in a country where commissions and reports have had a very checkered history, are we still so demanding of there implementation? I really don't know why people think that Iran and Syria would openly help us.
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    yeah, ummm.... show us all where Bush was "blasted for letting his generals run the show", if you could... a link or three from a non-obscure righty blog would be greatly appreciated...

    as for your apparent rejection of commissions, this of course marches right in step with righties' usual stance about the UN... because they've made mistakes, they should merely be ignored from now on... nevermind that such commissions are the best form of independent assessment of a calamity....

    how George Sr. even talks to his son anymore is baffling... He's got to be disgusted...
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  21. Real World

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    ...my...name....is...agenda...man...I'm...as...illogical...and...as...partisan...as...I...am...stupid...My...hero...is...keith....Odorman...I'm...always...wrong...but...when...people...prove...me...to...be...so...I....just...keep....repeating....my...drivel...has...anyone...seen...my...white...surrender...flag...or...my...inflatable...doll...? :D
  22. PressCoverage

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    i knew you wouldn't answer the challenge... more strawman nonsense from a poster who can't debate the issues... my hero is not Keith Olbermann, so you continue to look ridiculous... you're a debater who makes some good points and can form a coherent sentence, but who truly has limited options when challenged...

    might wanna do yourself a favor and avoid questioning my intellect... it's been displayed beyond a doubt that i'm not stupid...
  23. Real World

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    Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. While you're at it, keep starting threads where no one replies, except for you to yourself. :eek:
  24. All_Around_Brown

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    Fact is, George W Bush and neo-cons like you got us into this quagmire, and now you all are trying to pass the buck.

    What I am suggesting is that the plan is closer to what they've been given by a bipartisan Baker Hamilton group. Playing politics? Isn't that what Bush has done with this since selling the war on a series of lies, and being advised by Rove to "Run on the war". That you have the gall to blame Dems for playing politics when Bush refused to fire the Sec Def for as long as he did (until after the election) says it all. And the fact that he waited another two months while our soldiers were getting killed and maimed before the great decider decided that they need "reinforcements". And the fact that for 3 years he's been saying "stay the course", when it was obvious to everyone not braindead that the course was toward anarchy and failure. Only to change course when the politics of the nation changed.

    Now, Im sure you will continue your tactic of obfuscating the fact that Bush's war is probably already lost, and that the only real meaningful way for us to save some semblance of "victory" in this is to engage in diplomacy in ways that Bush has been extremely inept at and completely unwilling to do. (Too much work)

    I know. Its easier for you to blame Democrats.

    You best get on board with the bipartisan program...the train is leaving the station Real, and noone particulalry cares for you neo-cons anymore.
  25. Real World

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    Comical. If calling me a neocon makes you feel better, so be it, good for you. Regardless of what you decide to call me, it doesn't change the facts of the discussion. Furthermore, I wasn't in favor of invading Iraq, so try to get your accusations straight.

    Um, you said the dems have a more detailed plan that they were withholding. If they are withholding a plan while criticizing another, is playing politics no? Does their playing politics at all mean that GW hasn't? Of course not, and never did I say that politics haven't been a part of the GOP position. Matter of fact, I've said that politics have been a factor in this war from day 1. Remember the voting anyone? My question is clear, what is the Dems plan, and do they even have one? To which I feel they don't. You feel they do and are withholding it, that's shameful is all I've said. Again, to me, Iraq is not about politics, or partisanship as it is with you, and most others in here. For me, the most important aspect of Iraq is success. How can we best succeed. I know it's not for you, but for me it is.

    As for the Hamilton Baker report, why is it gospel? Why is it right? Their plan relies on a number of factors, and different players, to go along, and help our cause. Why would they? Last I checked, I don't think Israel is going to give back the Golan Heights, nor do I think Syria is going to incriminate itself in admitting it assasinated Harriri. Think Iran is going to help us weaken Al-Sadr too? Or think they'll help us stop the flow of weapons and arms that are coming in from it's own government? I don't.

    Again, call me a neocon if it makes you feel better. I'm confident enough in my charactor, are you?

    Blame the Democrats for what? I asked what their plan was, or if they had one. You said you suspected they did, and were waiting to let us know what it was. We're going on 4 years, and some of us are still waiting. Wanna fill us in on the details? I know you dislike GW, but I can't fathom how an american would not want us to succeed in Iraq. I'd rather we weren't there, but we are unfortunately, and we're not leaving tomorrow either.
  26. Fogbuster

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    :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:


    Wow, such a hissy fit!!

    Watch out, Real, Pressy's gonna hit you with his purse.

    :eek:


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  27. Fogbuster

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    OUCH !! Now, that has *got* to hurt !!

    Flying purse alert !!


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  28. Fogbuster

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    ... if you do say so, yourself.

    How's the food these days in the catacombs of BC, where all you TA's hang?


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  29. Harry Boy

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    DO YOU HAVE WORMS?

    DING DONG MASS GOVERNOR IS STUDYING WORMS.
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  30. All_Around_Brown

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    I'll get back to this later. But from your statements, I interpreted you as wanting to use the military to spread democracy wherever and whenever.

    That would put you pretty firmly in the neo-conservative camp.

    If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. I don't know at this point what the Dem "plan" is, but there is one plan that has not been tried yet and that is the Baker-Hamilton plan.

    I suspect they will adopt this as an official position as it is bipartisan. Bush on the other hand has only one plan. Stay the course.

    Real, you claim you are well versed in the issue. Maybe you can comment on the permanence of US bases in Iraq and what that means to you.

    As far as your comment on the flow of arms into Iraq from Iran, as of right now...thats a complete fabrication. So Im calling you out as a purveyor of disinformation...another hallmark of neo-conservatives.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2007

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