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Jet's looking to move up to grab Cutler?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Interesting if true - I was kindof hoping they'd stay where they were and pick Young - who I think is going to be an NFL disappointment (a less talented version of Michael Vick).

    Oh well - its usually 50/50 with a 1st round QB pick anyway.

  2. SaCaCh

    SaCaCh Rookie

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    HUH?!?!? Why? Just sit it out and take whatever of the 3 QB's fall to you. If you are as bad as you are...KEEP you picks you will need them ALLLLL.
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    There's a ton of buzz about Cutler these days - I'm not quite sure over what.

    But I'm guessing Mangini probably has some strong feelings about what a difference-maker the right QB can be for a team.
  4. nickw308810

    nickw308810 Rookie

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    I really like Jay Cutler, but there is no way you take him instead of Matt Leinart or Vince Young. He was the QB for a team that never went to a Bowl game. Could he end up being the best of the 3? Quite possibly, but that is a lot of risk to take considering you should be able to just sit still and get him.
  5. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

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    I can't imagine the thought process in this.. With Reggie Bush, Vince Young, and Matt Leinart I can't see why you'd move from the #4 spot. If Cutler goes ahead of any of those guys why would you not save your picks and just 'settle' for one of those three? Weird move if it goes through. Bad move, IMO.

    EDIT: Of course, EM learned from Belichick... It could just be a smokescreen to get one of the top 3 picks to take Cutler letting one of the other Big Three fall to the four slot. Who knows. Interesting draft this year though. Much more fun than last season to me, so far.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the NFL the road the hell is often paved with buzz and hype. There was much talk at the Senior Bowl practices that Bradway was salivating over Cutler. His performance in the game was thoroughly underwhelming.

    His pre draft buzz was maybe mid first rounder in a weak draft. And I think even that is a product of demand exceeding supply. His scouting report from NFLDraft.com is certainly a mixed bag.

    Strengths:
    Has a very strong arm...Good size...Pretty good athlete who can move a little...Sports a quick delivery with good accuracy...Patient player who will go through his progressions...Tough guy who will hang in the pocket and take a hit...Throws well on the move...Strong and durable with a lot of experience...A leader with top intangibles and is a gamer who comes up big in the clutch.

    Weaknesses:
    Mechanics get pretty dodgy at times...Footwork is very eratic...Will take unnecessary risks and make some bad decisions...Gunslinging mentality can morph into recklessness...Has too much confidence in his arm at times...Struggles throwing the deep ball...Has not had a lot of success at the college level from a team perspective...Body has taken a lot of punishment throughout his career.

    Notes:
    Never received a lot of national attention but was named preseason All-SEC...Has the physical tools and makeup to succeed at the next level...With the lack of top signal callers available don't be surprised if Cutler goes off the board early.
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    JSP -
    I gotta disagree with you about Young. I think that he is much more talented than Vick. Young can recognized defenses and Young can actually throw on the run with accuracy and Young doesn't look to run as soon as a play breaks down. I've watched him step up into the pocket and look around before taking off.

    If the Titans take Young, I think that Norm Chow would be in heaven because of the talent that Young brings.
  8. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re:

    I think Cutler is being promoted by teams to mess with the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if Norm Chow hyped Cutler up at the Senior Bowl in the hopes that Leinert fell to the Titans.

    3 of the first 4 teams picking in the draft could use a good QB. There are only two blue chips - Leinert and Bush.

    I don't understand the hype around Cutler. He was never a winner in college, has not had to face high-pressure competition, and
  9. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    It's because they don't want to sit and have Bush, Leinart, and Cutler go right ahead of them. Vince Young will continue to fall come draft day, and I would laugh my ass off if the Jets were stuck with him, he's going to be the biggest bust ever.
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Drew -
    Sorry, but Vince Young can't have the title of Biggest Bust ever. That would be Ryan Leaf. And there is no way young can top him. Unless, of course, he got arrested just hours after being drafted...
  11. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    I don't know about the rest of u guys, but I have this feeling that one of these guys is gonna drop like big ben. Anyone else think it's a possibility? My guys would be cutler. I dont know what people aare getting crazy about. I havent seen THAT much from him. Tell me who you guys think is gonna drop. Remember the cardinals are bound to screw up and let somebody to keep droppin. Thats a gimme. So who keeps slidin'?
  12. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re

    What is your reasoning behind this statement?

    Vince Young looks better than when Vick came out. He throws funky, but he makes good decisions and is an accurate passer.

    Also, you can't devalue the competitive spirit that some players show. For example, Tom Brady rallied Michican twice in his last Orange Bowl game to win in overtime by one point. Joe Montana was heroic at Notre Dame. Vince Young would not let Texas lose to USC; he kept single handedly bringing them back. All of these guys were knocked come draft day for various flaws. Vince Young plays differently, but he has the same poise, leadership and competitive fire.

    If Young drops in the 1st round, whoever drafts him is going to the playoffs guaranteed (partially because Young is good, and partially because that team would already have talent around him).

    .
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  13. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    Vince Young has BUST written all over him. Certainly not ready for prime time - and not sure ever will be. His throwing motion is awful, he release stinks. His "accuracy" will surely be tested in the NFL and his legs won't last, nor carry a team. Bank on it - VY = Bust.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  14. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I completely disagree.

    He is an accurate passer who makes good decisions. He had the highest QB passer rating in college this past year; higher than Leinert or any other quarterback. His throwing motion is weird, but he is 6'5 (tall), so I'm not sure how much his lower release point will negatively affect his passes.

    The issue I don't understand, is if you have a top 4 pick, why would you pick Cutler over Young? Cutler seems to me to be a Ryan Leaf. Moving big-time up the draft board for reasons not based on games, looks great, strong arm, questionable decision making and feet, and was not on a dominant winner in college or known for poise and heroic rallies.

    .
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  15. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Vince Young is not reckless. He is a tremendous athlete. I'm not sure if he has a huge arm, but he certainly seems accurate. Strikes me as what Atlanta WISHES Vick were right now. Savvy, looks to pass first, nice touch on the short check-down throws and, as a last resort, fleet afoot and BIG. What's not to like?
  16. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    I'm not even going to have this discussion as I've had it 20 times already. I'm already set on my judgement. Young is stupider than a gorilla, makes terrible decisions, is a shotgun QB, won't be able to use his easy option reads all the time, and is inaccurate when not throwing underneath to his TE every play. Whoever gets him is making a terrible mistake.
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re:

    Okay Drew, I understand why you'd be averse to discussing this, since you are facing arguments that are based on fact and performance, and because your main point is Vince Young is 'stupider than a gorilla', in your own words (by the way, 'stupider' isn't even a word just so you know).

    Check out ESPN's video interview with Young's current NFL QB coach. The former QB coach of Steve McNair came out of retirement and is currently working with Vince on film, footwork, decision-making, and others. He is doing it as a favor to the NFL, who asked him to do it, in order to make sure Vince Young becomes a star.

    I think Steve McNair is what Vince could become, but I actually expect Vince to be better than McNair.

    .
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  18. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    I could throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs if I had Young's pure physical abilities against the defenses he played. In the NFL, he'll have the likes of Belichick scheming against him.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WOW, Drew, tell us how you REALLY feel.

    But, let me ask you this. Why was it OK for Drew to dump it underneath to Ben Coates when his other options weren't there, but its not OK for Vince Young to do so?

    Also, considering that Youngs 2,3,5,6 receivers in # of catches were all WRs, I think you are over-stating, a tad, how ofter he went to the TE underneath. Also, Young have a 9.34 YPA doesn't seem to jive with your saying that he only could throw underneath. Or, are you saying that Young's receivers are so amazing that he'd throw simple dump offs to them and they'd gain the 17.7 yards per reception that those 4 avged. What's more unrealistic?

    Now, as for your claims that Young is stupider than a gorilla, what is your proof? I didn't watch him but for the Rose Bowl and 1 other game and what I saw there didn't show him to be stupid. Did he have a LOT of patience? No. But his 1st instinct wasn't to run the ball either. And that, alone, makes him better than Michael Vick.
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And Young will have the benefit of some of the good coaches out there. Dame Drew, what did Young do, cost you money or something? You're ragging on him borders on a personal hatred.
  21. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re:

    Anyways, back to the topic of the thread. So the Jets have #4. In my opinion, Leinert and Young should go ahead of Cutler, due to talent, decision making, statistics, and past performance.

    If the Jets want Cutler, why try to move up from #4? If I really wanted Cutler, and Leinert and Young were taken before #4, I would take him at #4, or trade DOWN to around 10-12 in the 1st round and also get an addition pick or two for later rounds (since picks 5-9 don't need QB's).

    HOWEVER....

    I could see the Jets trading with the Texans for #1 in order to take Leinert or Young. The Jets would take the top QB and the Texans would take the OT Ferguson. Why you ask?

    The Jets need a QB. They know the Saints go #2 and will take the top QB off the board. The Texans already have Carr, who is good but has no O-Line. The Texans already signed their RB Davis to a long term deal as well.

    Swapping #1 and #4+change makes sense for both teams.

    But the Jets trading up for Cutler is crazy talk.

    Instead of QB's dropping in the first round this year, I see running backs dropping. Reggie Bush may end up going at #5.

    .
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  22. Steve1iron

    Steve1iron Rookie

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    I agree with you. Young looks to be a lesser version of Michael Vick. They're both running backs who throw occasionally. Young's release will be a real problem in the pros. I don't see how he can change the delivery and still be an effective passer.
  23. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Orignially many shared your opinion that Young would go ahead of Cutler. Most draft gurus no longer share your opinion - which is what led to the talk of the Jets moving up to grab Cutler, who might be gone by #4.

    That's the basis for the whole thread - is Cutler worth it, and who is the better QB for the Jets?
  24. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re:

    I think it's clear I think Cutler isn't worth it.

    If one of those teams wants to make a mistake, then the Jets should be happy to pick up Leinert or Young or Bush at #4.

    .
  25. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    meh--i've been reading 'drew's' draft posts for a few years before he started posting here--not quite the savante he pretends to be on his preferred web forum

    i suspect we could probably dig up posts of his praising Bobby Grier and Michael Bishop

    grain of salt...
  26. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Why thank you.

    I'll put my draft knowledge up against anyone else's on here, and have dedicated myself to the draft for the past few offseasons. Sorry if my Young analysis doesn't fit yours, but we'll see soon enough.
  27. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    There's plenty of people on both sides of the fence on this one.

    The only thing for sure is that lots of smart people are going to look dumb.

    Frankly I have some questions about whether Leinart will be able to thrive without the outstanding supporting cast he currently has around him.

    I think many GMs share the same concerns about both Young and Leinart, and this is part of the reason why Cuttler's stock is rising.

    For what its worth, I (along with others) predicted that Big Ben would be the best QB out of his draft class and so far its looking like I was right.

    Frankly I hope I'm wrong - good QB play makes the whole NFL a lot more interesting - I want Young, Leinart and Cuttler to do well (with the exception of the one the Jets pick)
  28. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    actually, I don't have a Young analysis

    I have a 'drew' analysis though.

    I have read plenty of your posts over at the forum that you 'administer'--including the picks you made in the past few mock drafts on behalf of the Patriots ( :bricks: ) .

    I also like how you re-post virtually everything from Patsfans.com over there as if it was your original content.

    Whatever...between my opinion on the draft (and probably everything else as well) and yours, I'll take mine 10 times out of 10...
  29. nickw308810

    nickw308810 Rookie

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    Flying Fungi why don't you ever post at the "other" forum? We sure could use some more Pats fans over there. I was just wondering which one of the past few mock drafts have been so bad since I have taken part in most of them as well. To defend Drew, he was like 15 or something when he first started on the forum so give him some credit. (how old are you now drew, 17?)
    And as far as Vince Young goes, I am just not sure. I use to think he could never be an NFL QB. But this year he showed a lot of people he could play. Am I totally convinced? Not by a long shot. But man this guy has a lot of talent. I would also like to point out that Vick has won a good amount of games in the NFL and until Young does that there is no way he can be considered better than Vick.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  30. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    okay

    I'll buy that

    peace out Drew--you've grown a lot, and I apologize for coming down on you--you have a lot to offer, and with your level of interest and activity, perhaps you even have a future in sports media or management

    I even take back the Bobby Grier reference...

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