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Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident - [Update: Jets appealing fine]


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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Incorrect, Goodell specifically stated his punishment was for multiple years of violations, and the rule about camera placement is located in the operations manual. The memo that was sent out previous to the season was just a reminder about that rule, just like how Goodell has now sent out a memo about where people can stand on the sideline.

The rule about sideline placement is also in the rulebook/memo. Shrugs. Jets get off easy because Goodell can say, we didn't release a memo on it yet... The guy's simply a fink. It's pretty obvious he has a bias. But nobody can prove it definitively of course. But the results show that he goes a lot harder on the Pats and a lot easier on the Jets, 1st round pick plus money fine vs a money only fine.
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

The rule about sideline placement is also in the rulebook/memo. Shrugs. Jets get off easy because Goodell can say, we didn't release a memo on it yet... The guy's simply a fink. It's pretty obvious he has a bias. But nobody can prove it definitively of course. But the results show that he goes a lot harder on the Pats and a lot easier on the Jets, 1st round pick plus money fine vs a money only fine.

This is slightly OT but I have to smile at the different opinions of different fans re: Roger Goodell's bias. I happened upon a thread at a Redskins forum called "Are the Patriots Still Cheating?" Yes, the premise of the thread is there is no way we should be this good post-Spygate unless we have found new ways to cheat. It was interesting to see that everyone felt Goodell went soft on us (!!!) since he destroyed the tapes. They thought he was way too transparent with Favre on the other hand. It was a little like the Twilight Zone reading it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Well it is official:

New York Jets*

*Caught Cheating and Punished by the League
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Hey, Joker, I understand the point in your argument and all, but in checking out RHbT76's posting history, I doubt he's a troll on this subject - - you may want to take a look at it. In fact, it looks like he's pretty much tough on the Jets for Tripgate. So he has a different point of view on the Cameragate thing and maybe he's wrong on that or maybe he's right, but it's a wild stretch to tie him as some Jets troll.

I'll take your word for it ,Shmessy. He IS wrong though.I don't want to drag up the posts here with the HARD COPY proof, I'll leave it for him to do that...if he cares to educate himself in FACT and not the same generic lies that were generated around this whole dog and pony show.
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Well it is official:

New York Jets*

*Caught Cheating and Punished by the League

I'll add that to the sig...
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

I'm sorry but you seem to have some kind of emotional problem so this will be my last response to you. The memo was sent out to warn teams to stop violating the established rules, Belichick ignored the memo.

In regards to what the punishment was for:



Goodell tells Specter Patriots have been taping since 2000 - The Boston Globe

Goodell says that is his ASSUMPTION...that the Pats were taping since Belichick took over was stated by Belichick himself. YOU are still 100% wrong. The Patriots turned over 6 tapes from the 2006 season along with notes going back to 2002. Goodell fined the Pats for disobeying his memo by taping from the sideline at the start of the 2007 season. YOUR assertion that he fined them for taping for years earlier is neither supported by ANY evidence nor by Goodell himself. What Goodell says is the Patriots were taping since BB took over and that what he was reminding them and the rest of the league was that it was to be done properly,from approved positions only, DURING a game. There is NO HARD COPY EVIDENCE of Patriot recording devices on a sideline except for the six tape Goodell had turned over to him from the 2006 season. HE subsequently destroyed them NOT the Patriots. This leaves people like you to make these wild leaps and STATE as fact something that has NEVER been proven to exist. Please, no parroting of the rules and the link to Specter. I read and re-read them hundreds of times already going back years.
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Goodell says that is his ASSUMPTION...that the Pats were taping since Belichick took over was stated by Belichick himself. YOU are still 100% wrong. The Patriots turned over 6 tapes from the 2006 season along with notes going back to 2002. Goodell fined the Pats for disobeying his memo by taping from the sideline at the start of the 2007 season. YOUR assertion that he fined them for taping for years earlier is neither supported by ANY evidence nor by Goodell himself. What Goodell says is the Patriots were taping since BB took over and that what he was reminding them and the rest of the league was that it was to be done properly,from approved positions only, DURING a game. There is NO HARD COPY EVIDENCE of Patriot recording devices on a sideline except for the six tape Goodell had turned over to him from the 2006 season. HE subsequently destroyed them NOT the Patriots. This leaves people like you to make these wild leaps and STATE as fact something that has NEVER been proven to exist. Please, no parroting of the rules and the link to Specter. I read and re-read them hundreds of times already going back years.

Wasn't there some really good website that was set up to catalog and shoot down all the sloppy, wrong and wild ascertions made versus what the Pats actually were punished for in cameragate? I forgot the name, but if you have a link to that site, this might be a good place to remind folks about it.
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

yeah...CHFF is the definitive site for debunking all these Spygate lies and half truths
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

New York Jets*
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

yeah...CHFF is the definitive site for debunking all these Spygate lies and half truths

No, there was a site that was set up within a month or two of the whole shebang in 2007 that was specifically and completely all about the one subject. It was a compendium of refutations of the urban myths that had sprung up about the cameragate thing. It was almost like a snopes.com thing.
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

No, there was a site that was set up within a month or two of the whole shebang in 2007 that was specifically and completely all about the one subject. It was a compendium of refutations of the urban myths that had sprung up about the cameragate thing. It was almost like a snopes.com thing.

It was set up by one of Patsfans.com's very own (PatsFanInVa, I believe), but it's since been taken down.
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

I'll check my bookmarks but that link should be posted somewhere here...I know I used it to start my work on this which is STILL in progress...slowly...but something I intend to finish.

here's the 2008 CHFF overview which pretty much lays the whole sordid mess bare...

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Troll Report: the Spygate body count
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

No, there was a site that was set up within a month or two of the whole shebang in 2007 that was specifically and completely all about the one subject. It was a compendium of refutations of the urban myths that had sprung up about the cameragate thing. It was almost like a snopes.com thing.

I would LOVE to see this site. Got link?
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Goodell says that is his ASSUMPTION...

Why would he assume? He is the one who came up with the penalty.

Goodell fined the Pats for disobeying his memo by taping from the sideline at the start of the 2007 season.


Not true. Do you have HARD COPY evidence of that? (he he, you always want HARD COPY from others)

YOUR assertion that he fined them for taping for years earlier is neither supported by ANY evidence nor by Goodell himself.

You've been provided information that show the Pats were penalized for the totally of acts.

Why you want the penalty to be for post-memo is beyond me. You seem to go nuts whenever you bring this up.
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

here's what Bill Belichick had to say about what the Patriots did and why they did it...and I believe what he says is true because I've never heard directly or indirectly, a lie or a statement covering up the truth from Bill Belichick since he's been the head coach of the NE Pats. I believe he is an honest man and a good man. I resent the vicious implications hurled around like feces from the monkey cage at the zoo that suggest otherwise...

Belichick also addressed his interpretation of Article 9 of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws, which the Patriots were penalized for violating. Belichick believed the taping was legal as long as the tape wasn't used during the same game, saying "my interpretation was that you can't utilize anything to assist you during that game. What our camera guys do is clearly not allowed to be used during the game and has never been used during that game that it was shot."[7] He also added the team using the tapes for "halftime adjustments" was "never, never" the case. Once the Patriots were penalized, Belichick said, "the practice was immediately stopped."[7] He also issued an apology for not contacting the league regarding his interpretation of a "gray area" in the rule and called the incident "my responsibility."
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

I did some research earlier this year on regular season records during the periods before and after Spygate to see the effect after the Pats were sanctioned.

Without posting the entire study (unless someone can show me how to post a spreadsheet here), here are the highlight:

Most Regular Season Wins From 2004 - 2006
1) Indianapolis - 38
2) New England - 36
3) San Diego - 35
4) Pittsburgh - 34
5) Denver - 32
6) Seattle - 31
7) Philadelphia - 29
8) Jacksonville - 29
9) Chicago - 29
10) Baltimore - 28

17) New York Jets - 17


Most Regular Season Wins From 2007 - 2009
1) Indianapolis - 39
2) New England - 37
3) Dallas - 33
4) San Diego - 32
5) Pittsburgh - 31
6) Tennessee - 31
7) New York Giants - 30
8) Minnesota - 30
9) Green Bay - 30
10) Philadelphia - 28
11) New Orleans - 28

20) New York Jets - 22

So to point out some highlights, of the teams who had more than 30 regular season wins from 2004 - 2006, only two teams, Indianapolis and New Enland INCREASED their regular season win totals from 2007 - 2009. The Jets, by contrast managed to win five more games from from 2007 - 2009, but relative to the rest of the league finished 20th in total wins down from 17th.

So it appears that the Jets and the rest of the league would have fared better if the Pats had been allowed to keep taping. The Pats actually increased their win totals in the subsequent three years.

So the Pats cheating had no impact on the Jets suckitude. The Jets apparently suck in a vacuum, independent of anything that the Pats did. We can only imagine the discrepancy there would be if the Pats hadn't had a #1 pick stolen from them.

Now, here in 2010 with a 13-2 record currently and extra high picks in the first three rounds of the 2011 draft, the Pats are getting the equivalent of their own draft, plus that of a team with a very bad record. I guess the haters will need to find another excuse for their teams' ineptitude, or be forced to just admit that the Pats are the top franchise in the NFL, and one of the gr8est of all time....

Because the discrepancy is getting ready to increase yet again...with a vengeance!
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

hey...looky here...dem nutz iz softbawled...

You've been provided information that show the Pats were penalized for the totally of acts.no, I haven't...if I am understanding your gibberish "totally of acts" correctly

Why you want the penalty to be for post-memo is beyond me. You seem to go nuts whenever you bring this up. I don't "want" anything. The penalty was imposed POST memo.DUH...
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

sequence of events and why I hate the Jets

-2006 Mangini has a camera on the bridge filming Patriot signals, Patriot officials take the camera and make the cameraman leave.

- 2007 getting their arses kicked (again) by the Pats. Mangini is so upset he cries to league officials because the Patriots are filming on the sidelines. The Patriots know they are not the only team doing this, but again, in typical Patriot fashion they keep it in the family and don't point fingers.

-2010 Tripgate. while under heat from the league...Jets rat out Patriots again saying they do the same thing.


Hey Jets.....stop snitchin!
 
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Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

It was set up by one of Patsfans.com's very own (PatsFanInVa, I believe), but it's since been taken down.

Yes it was him and he later took it down. If someone does a search here for the url you might find something in the wayback machine.

When he was working on it, he asked for feedback from myself and other PatsFans posters. I kept a copy from that time.

This is Section 1 from PatsFaninVa's old site regarding Spygate.


Framing the Debate
Fans for Responsible and Accurate Media (FRAMe) was conceived in early 2008, by football fans insistent on accuracy in media accounts of “Cameragate.”

The group’s acronym touches on its mission: to help frame the debate on “Cameragate.” Any news story is presented within a frame of reference, with an agreed-upon reality underlying each story. This is problematic enough when the news media are concerned; in the case of the sports media, accountability is less stringent, and the bar is lower.

FRAMe focuses on correcting errors taken as fact in the “Cameragate” narrative – such as the myth that the NFL circulated a memo regarding videotaping prior to the 2007 season. So many stories by now have responded to the Patriots’ behavior “after the off-season memo was circulated…,” that it has become an almost arcane footnote that the memo in question was circulated in the 2006 off-season. (See FRAMe Backgrounder: “Offseason” memo was in 2006, not 2007.)

In short, a simplified consensus narrative has emerged regarding “Cameragate,” a narrative which may be palatable to a variety of interests, but is simply wrong. The narrative makes “spying” the core of the debate, when in fact spying has been part of the game for decades; paints Bill Belichick as a scofflaw, who read a memo and scant weeks later, flagrantly violated it, when no other teams would dream of doing so; and, above all, elevates selective enforcement on the part of the League, selective reporting on behalf of the sports media, and selective outrage on the part of Sen. Arlen Specter, as public services in pursuit of the truth all fans need to know.

FRAMe uses the word “Cameragate” rather than “Spygate” advisedly. The Patriots are not, in fact, accused of “Spying” (which is not a rules breach), but of “spying in a particular way using a camera,” which (sometimes) is.

FRAMe takes no stand on whether or not hearings should be held on the Senate floor. Rather, FRAMe insists that the sports media and the national news media pursue any resulting story with the same zeal and cynical eye they would turn to events of national importance. Certainly, one “frame” for such hearings is the picture of crusading Senators speaking truth to power. Another “frame” is the phenomenon of McCarthyism. FRAMe urges the sports media to remember to ask qui bene?, and urges the sports media to “follow the money.”

FRAMe is happy to supply the news and sports media with fact sheets regarding the “Cameragate” narrative, and aims to source any such resources thoroughly. Members of the sports media are invited – and encouraged – to use FRAMe as a resource for presenting “the other side of the story.”
 
Re: Jets Fined 100K for tripping incident....

Section 2 FRAME
Taping Timeline###
“Offseason Memo” Was in 2006, Not 2007
It was a storied AFC East franchise, a winner of multiple Super Bowls. The head coach, a curmudgeon who’d been known to antagonize the media, was under fire. The National Football League had released a memo that very offseason warning against illegal videotaping. Yet he was in possession of a tape of a divisional rival, one he had just vanquished by an overwhelming score.

The year: 2006. The coach: Nick Saban. The team: The Miami Dolphins.

The familiar scenario and surprising punch-line underscore some of the most commonly repeated errors in the current “cameragate” controversy surrounding the New England Patriots, and their head coach, Bill Belichick.

Since the beginnings of the Patriots’ troubles in September 2007, it has been widely reported that an “offseason memo” had reminded teams around the league about improper use of videotaping equipment. What is almost universally left out is that the offseason in question was in 2006.

NFL Videotaping Controversy Chronology

September 6, 2006:
NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson writes in a memo to all 32 NFL teams, that videotaping is prohibited during the game.

November 12, 2006
A New York Jets cameraman is caught taping by the Patriots in Gillette Stadium. When the story comes to light almost a year later, Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum tells the New York Daily News the story is “completely false.” In December 2007, Jets Head Coach Eric Mangini characterizes the story as true. Mangini calls permission for such taping a “common courtesy” which NFL clubs extend to one another – despite the fact that the Jets’ employee was apprehended by Patriots’ staff and told to leave. No documents have come to light specifying that “otherwise illegal taping with permission” enjoys any special category of immunity from league action.

December 10, 2006:
The Miami Dolphins defeat the New England Patriots, using an enhanced-audio videotape Dolphins Coach Nick Saban says he got from television, and Dolphins players say he purchased:

"Reaction around the league office was, 'That's football,' " AFC spokesman Steve Alic said.
Neither coach nor players said the tapes were obtained from a structure “…enclosed on
all sides with a roof overhead,” as mandated by the NFL’s operations manual, as regards the shooting of video for coaching purposes. The enhanced video does seem to fit the League’s description of the product of information-gathering equipment for coaching purposes:
In the league's Constitution & Bylaws, it reads: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

September 9, 2007:
Members of the New York Jets security staff confiscate a camera from New England Patriots employee Matt Estrella, and “cameragate” begins.

FRAMe maintains that this chronology matters. Sports pundits routinely and incorrectly infer “arrogance” from Bill Belichick’s actions, saying they flew in the face of “the offseason memo” – which was sent in the 2006 offseason. The implication in such stories is always that the Patriots saw a memo issued one month, and purposefully broke the rules reinforced by that memo the following month. Even stories that proffer no such opinions routinely refer to the “offseason memo” without reference to the year in which it was issued.

This brief one-year chronology also offers a window into the realms of interpretation that have seemed to be available to some coaches, but not others, despite a complete lack of prior written authorization in support of their interpretive claims.

NFL: Dolphins did no wrong vs. Patriots - NFL - ESPN NFL: Dolphins did no wrong vs. Patriots
By Len Pasquarelli ESPN.com (Archive)
Entry of a clown in Spygate making circus look like child's play - CBSSports.com Football. Entry of a clown in Spygate making circus look like child's play. Mike Freeman, CBSSportsline. March 3, 2008.
NFL's Goodell Proposes Crackdown on Cheating - washingtonpost.com NFL’s Goodell Proposes Crackdown on Cheating. Mark Maske. Washington Post Staff Writer March 7, 2008
NFL: Dolphins did no wrong vs. Patriots - NFL - ESPN NFL: Dolphins did no wrong vs. Patriots
By Len Pasquarelli ESPN.com (Archive) Updated: December 13, 2006, 12:42 PM ET
He said, he said: Jets say they had go-ahead, Belichick says no - NFL - ESPN He said, he said: Jets say they had go-ahead, Belichick says no ESPN.com news services Updated: December 15, 2007, 4:01 PM ET
Lee Grosscup - Spying in Pro Football - SPORT magazine - thesportgallery.com Spying In Pro Football. Lee Grosscup, August 1967, Sport.

Ibid

SI.com - Writers - MMQB (cont.) - Monday March 3, 2008 12:05PM Ten Things I Think I Think. Peter King. March 3, 2008. Sports Illustrated.

ibid
 
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