Jets and Banta-Cain

[Gunnails]

From Len Pasquarelli's Inside Tip Sheet re: Banta-Cain

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"The New York Jets are expected to pursue New England linebacker Tully Banta-Cain as an unrestricted free agent. The Patriots' coaching staff was down on Banta-Cain by the end of the season and he didn't start in the last two playoff games."

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Why are the coaching staff down on Cain, He played well against the Jets.

 

[Seymour93]

Why are the coaching staff down on Cain, He played well against the Jets.

Tomlinson was running towards his side all day in SD. He looked really tired versus the Colts as well. TBC has just never really taken the next step.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

as a situational pass rusher, i like him... all depends on the price i guess

 

[cstjohn17]

From Len Pasquarelli's Inside Tip Sheet re: Banta-Cain

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"The New York Jets are expected to pursue New England linebacker Tully Banta-Cain as an unrestricted free agent. The Patriots' coaching staff was down on Banta-Cain by the end of the season and he didn't start in the last two playoff games."

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Why are the coaching staff down on Cain, He played well against the Jets.

J-A-G, JAG, JAG, JAG.

Those Jets first they take Chatham and then they take TBC. Pretty soon we will have no backup LBs...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hello Lennie Pasta,

TBC did start and play the entire game against run happy San Diego - Seymour did not have his best game there, Jarvis spelled him a fair bit - running at Warren or Wilfork aren't always the best choices either.

Indy is "A" a passing team, "B" a running team, or "C" balanced? If you chose "A" you chose Alexander for his ILB pass defense capability as a former SS.

Now, all prejudice about the Jets aside, are they sooo hard up for LBs that they are going to chase after a first year starter who Lenny P believes hit the wall? Is TBC an upgrade for Matt Chatham? Chatham couldn't beat out Hobson or Thomas, Thomas got signed to a nice extension mid-season, Hobson did a pretty good job alongside a failing Kimo Von Oelhoffin.

Does anyone think Pierre Woods is ready to step in near the same level TBC is now? Even if you believe TBC does a poor job against the run and can't cover TEs and RBs, you need to point to a replacement who brings more to the table - the Jets know what they are doing even if Lenny was checking his radio schedule while the intern typed, TBC had a good season and is a decent reserve 3-4 OLB, if not a candidate to take the next step into the regular rotation.

 

[PonyExpress]

If TBC had started from day 1 he probably would have had double digit sacks. If he can improve setting the edge he can play an important role on the team. Also, Pasquarelli is incorrect. TBC started vs. SD.

 

[fgssand]

J-A-G, JAG, JAG, JAG.

Those Jets first they take Chatham and then they take TBC. Pretty soon we will have no backup LBs...

Sure we will have back ups and they will be better than Chatam and/or TBC. I happen to like Woods a lot and Alexandar seems to be could developing quite nicely.

Utilizing young drafted or FA rookies playing under their first contract is the way to manage a cap IMHO - not providing second contract deals to back ups. Also, finding promising FA's is smart as well.

If the rookie or free agent LB's develop, then they should be kept - if not oust the JAGS and let someone else (like the Jests) overpay.

 

[BradyManny]

as a situational pass rusher, i like him... all depends on the price i guess

Agreed, TBC's pass rush was sick at times. If we can get him for something reasonable, that'd be perfect.

I think the ideal scenario is signing/drafting an ILB allowing Vrabel to stay outside with Colvin and TBC used in pass rushing scenarios as you said.

 

[RayClay]

Hello Lennie Pasta,

TBC did start and play the entire game against run happy San Diego - Seymour did not have his best game there, Jarvis spelled him a fair bit - running at Warren or Wilfork aren't always the best choices either.

Indy is "A" a passing team, "B" a running team, or "C" balanced? If you chose "A" you chose Alexander for his ILB pass defense capability as a former SS.

Now, all prejudice about the Jets aside, are they sooo hard up for LBs that they are going to chase after a first year starter who Lenny P believes hit the wall? Is TBC an upgrade for Matt Chatham? Chatham couldn't beat out Hobson or Thomas, Thomas got signed to a nice extension mid-season, Hobson did a pretty good job alongside a failing Kimo Von Oelhoffin.

Does anyone think Pierre Woods is ready to step in near the same level TBC is now? Even if you believe TBC does a poor job against the run and can't cover TEs and RBs, you need to point to a replacement who brings more to the table - the Jets know what they are doing even if Lenny was checking his radio schedule while the intern typed, TBC had a good season and is a decent reserve 3-4 OLB, if not a candidate to take the next step into the regular rotation.

I think Woods is better than TBC. I think we got lucky in that one of our bargain basement backups looks like he can play.

Hate to revisit an old argument, but it looked like we scraped by with no talent added at LB except Seau, but it killed us when it counted.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think Woods is better than TBC. I think we got lucky in that one of our bargain basement backups looks like he can play.

Hate to revisit an old argument, but it looked like we scraped by with no talent added at LB except Seau, but it killed us when it counted.

Have we even seen Woods in a real game situation at OLB?

 

[unoriginal]

Have we even seen Woods in a real game situation at OLB?

No. People are making stuff up about Woods and TBC.

Lenny seems to be basing his evaluation of TBC wholly on BB's decision to start Alexander "over" him, when it might just as likely be Alexander started because Bruschi is no longer a good cover linebacker.

The Pats could very well be upset with TBC, but thats something we won't know for quite awhile.

 

[spacecrime]

Even if you believe TBC does a poor job against the run and can't cover TEs and RBs, you need to point to a replacement who brings more to the table.

Pfffff. I don't "need" to do anything. Just because I don't know his replacement doesn't suddenly make TBC a better player.

Either he can play the run and cover or he cannot. It has nothing to do with who I think his replacement might be. However, in the interest of meeting your demand, give me a list of FA and draft-elibible LBs and I will see if I can find one who might bring more to the table than TBC.

 

[RayClay]

Have we even seen Woods in a real game situation at OLB?

No, I'm exaggerating. He's looked awesome on ST and looked good in pre season, but let's face it, we've got a 7th rounder and 3 F.A.'s for the 4th spot and all backups.

Anybody that can walk and chew gum at the same time looks good until we bring some talent in.

I've seen Mays in a game situation. Alexander?? Let me put it this way, all those guys better shine on special teams.

 

[WhiZa]

I think the Pats are planning on moving Vrabel outside again and TBC is probably good enough to start on a weaker team. so bye bye TBC and the way Mangina runs things we'll see you in the meadowlands.

 

[captain stone]

1) I think Woods is better than TBC. I think we got lucky in that one of our bargain basement backups looks like he can play.

2) Hate to revisit an old argument, but it looked like we scraped by with no talent added at LB except Seau, but it killed us when it counted.

1) I agree. Give Woods another year. He at least has the size, let's see if he has the motor, determination, instincts and coachability.


2) I really agree. This LB corpse is a disaster. Thanks, FO.

If TBC won't sign for the vet minimum +, then sayonara. Mays and Alexander were JAGs coming out of college, and they're JAGs today. Davis and Izzo? Please. Seau and Gardner are certainly invited to TC, but should have to earn their keep.

Bottom line is: the LB corpse needs at least 3, and possibly up to 6, new, healthy, explosive bodies. The same old, same old, is not acceptable.

 

[everlong]

Mangini is as tight lipped as BB so I doubt Lenny has any real intel on the Jets plans. I think intuitively it makes sense that the Jets would raid the Pats again thus the story.

I think it was BOR in another post who speculated that the Pats would keep TBC in a Jarvis Green type of role and give him a fair deal, maybe a little less than Green who is paid quite well as a specialist. If TBC wants to stay and win I think that's what will happen. If he thinks of himself as an every down player and he wants that big pay day he'll sign with the Jets or another 3-4 team.

I think he's some place between a JAG and a star. In the Green specialist category, but I think he proven he's not an every down player against the run especially against a power team like the Chargers.

 

[braveht]

The SD game was an anomaly for TBC; he failed to make enough plays vs. the run. Four reasons that SD ran well to their left:
1) Seymour was playing hurt , esp his left arm, kept him from shedding McNiell
2) Neal!!
3) LT
4) McNiell
4a) Gates The safeties couldn't help in the box.

Would Colvin been better? Sure, I think. But that's what u expect at his pay grade. A Thomas would've too, but that don't mean the $7M per year more for him than TBC would be the best use of our $$.

Our LBs were great when we had Willie, Vrab, and Colvin OLB and Tedy, TJ, and Pfifer ILB. Rotating kept them fresh. Our need is depth. Much as I like Izzo on ST, I wish we had a back-up LB who also played STs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Pfffff. I don't "need" to do anything. Just because I don't know his replacement doesn't suddenly make TBC a better player.

Either he can play the run and cover or he cannot. It has nothing to do with who I think his replacement might be. However, in the interest of meeting your demand, give me a list of FA and draft-elibible LBs and I will see if I can find one who might bring more to the table than TBC.

Pffff, yourownself, if I recall correctly you were Infantry and understand the "warm body" concept when it comes to humping gear, field daying the barracks, and duty rotations. I don't recall if I've ever read your views on TBC as an OLB, but at minimum he was a warm body in the defense and arguably a level or ten higher. You may not "need" to do anything from your arm chair any more than I do, but as an exercise in fan appreciation for the Pats' Front Office and Coaching Staff a little "need" does get into the spirit of things.

This site hasn't updated yet, but I provide the link in case they get their thumb out this season: http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=121&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&pid=10&yr=2007

This site has a list you can sort through, but I read one complaint about them not keeping up with signings recently: http://www.theredzone.org/2007/freeagents/

Good Hunting!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

1)

2) I really agree. This LB corpse is a disaster. Thanks, FO.

pwp: what a freudian slip!

Bottom line is: the LB corpse needs at least 3, and possibly up to 6, new,

pwp: Hmmm, guess it was intentional

healthy, explosive bodies. The same old, same old, is not acceptable.

And then, comparing our guys to terrorists!