Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, Sep 25, 2006.
I find it odd this camp resides in a place called "Devils Lake". Is that just a coincidence?
The problem with Mikey and liberals in general is that they have never accepted America as the "land of the free". This is why they cringe at the thought of losing control of the Supreme Court. This is why they are responsible for most of the division in this country.
Before any of you post to these thoughts...remember who on this board thinks blue and red states should be seperate entities. Yes...the supposed compassionate, caring liberals who are not compassionate and caring at all.
Reason why they are the greatest danger to America's future...because they don't believe in the America that was founded years ago.
They strive for a different America...where everyone plays by the same socialist rules. They strive to reign in true freedom of speech and replace it with freedom of socialist thought....and yes..that pretty well describes you Mikey...socialist supreme of the political forum.
Uhmm, Mikey has offered just the news.
You on the other hand, have offered none of the same and plenty of attacks on Mikey.
Does the above news not trouble you at all?
Would you only find it troublesome if it were Muslim children being brainwashed by Imams?
I think I posted something about this before, one telling issue for me is that GWB is portrayed as a deity.. that is very scary for me.
Here is the youtube of Jesus Camp...
Could these be called "Allah's Boot Camp":
After the first Gulf War, says Singer, Saddam began forcing boys as young as 6 into military boot camps. By age 10 the children are trained in the use of small arms and basic infantry tactics. Their uniform includes shirts with the inscription "Ashbal Saddam," according to the Paris-based International Federation of Human Rights.
GEORGE BUSH PUT A STOP TO THIS ONE.
More than 400 protesters â€” including small children â€” carried placards scrawled with messages of hate. A baby girl even had â€śI Love al-Qaedaâ€ť on her bonnet.
The parents of pretty Farisa Jihad, 20 months, proudly proclaimed she is the youngest member of the terror group.
She was brought to the protest by her father Abu, 38. Next to her was a huge poster exclaiming: â€śWhoever insults a prophet, kill him.â€ť
I find it troublesome when any American has a problem with Freedom of Speech...you should also.
There is FOS that is respectfull and FOS that is disrespectfull. If these people are keeping to themselves and bothering nobody then who is Mikey to deny them their FOS???
Turk..you of all people who has seen the horrors of people from other countries trying to exercise FOS and getting killed for it...you of all people? I would think you would be a great supporter of FOS..I guess not.
As far as Muslim children getting brainwashed...I have no problem with that. It is none of my business and they are entitled to their FOS based on their culture and their country. FOS is what made this country great and liberals more than any other have a great problem with it. They even have a problem that Bush is letting Iraqi's run their country as they see fit...they say it all the time...same problems as always over there is what they say...like we should teach them what versions of FOS they should have and not have.
BTW...we have freedom of religion also...and it's the same crew in this forum who have a problem with that freedom also...I wonder why Turk?
1. Mikey reports a piece of news, and nothing else.
2. FBN editorializes, questioning Mikey's motives in sharing this piece of news.
3. Turk points out to the obvious conflict in FBN's post, while pointing out to
the troublesome content of the news which is the upbringing of an
intolerant generation at war with any other way of life.
4. FBN accuses Turk and all other liberals of intolerance, since what is being
practiced at these camps falls under the umbrella of freedom of speech.
5. Neither Turk nor any other liberal has asked for the immediate closing down
of these schools / arrest of the instructors, etc.
What I had (and still do) found to be troublesome is the polarization of not only our great Nation, but the whole world, at this day and age, based upon religion of all things. The teaching of intolerance is against what Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all stand for and yet under the umbrella of freedom of speech, intolerance and training of future warriors against this very freedom of speech, that you are claiming to be protective of, is being conducted and anyone with a shred of decency and concern for the type of world we are going to leave our children should be concerned and troubled.
Mankind has already gone through these wars of religions, many many times as a matter of fact and what they have left us with, are scars so deep that even generations later, we cannot seem to put them behind us and go on.
So, yes, I do find news of trained Palestinian children at the age of 6 with bombs taped on their bodies, Iranian children of 10-12, dressed in Jihadist clothes going through arms training, Kurdish children of 10-12 on ecstasy so that they are high while blowing themselves up along with innocent people on crowded buses or hospitals, Israeli kids of 8-10 writing notes on bombs to dropped on their Arab counterparts, all to be troublesome. How do you think these children got to that point? It was not overnight, it was through meticulous religious training / brainwashing.
I strongly believe that these are not problems of "over there" but of the whole world, of all the human race, and American children being brainwashed into believing in a "war" is just part of this sick equation that has devastating consequences, if responsible, consciencous people are not "troubled" enough by it.
"...At one point in the film, Fischer shouts to the children, "This is war! Are you part of it or not?" She proudly compares her work to the indoctrination of young boys by extremist Muslims in Pakistan and elsewhere...."
Freedom of speech? I don't think so.
I would call it brainwashing.
There is a reason the Media would never print a story negative to Allah, there is a reason Madonna would never trash Allah the way she does Jesus, there is a reason the well known Looney Nasty Liberal will never trash Allah the way they do Jesus, there is a reason that the Hollywood Wife Swappers will never make a Movie that bashes Allah the way they do Jesus, there is a reason that Cute Perky Katie and her gang of fellow liberal news saps will never Insult ISLAM the way they do Christianity.
FEAR, they are all f-cking bastard COWARDS, they are afraid that that sometime in the middle of the night a Muslim will come through their bedroom window and cut their son of a b!tching head off.
The Knee Jerkers say violence solves nothing, well, it's working pretty good for the Muslims.
What kind of America do you subscribe to? A white Christian America where differing points of view are not tolerated? An America where anyone who isn't a devout Christian is persecuted? An America that is no longer a melting pot of different ideas, different cultures.
Where do you draw the line, should America be turned into another third world sh!thole?
You do not even begin to comprehend what is being discussed but, once again, ignorance doesn't stop your irrelevant rantings which by the way are helping make Hawg's point.
Jesus Camp. Sounds scary. I'm a catholic, but certianly not a loon. I don't really believe in the church itself. The church is far too corrupt for my taste. Not entirely of course, but still corrupt. Anyhow, in reading about this camp I can't help but see some alarming information, some that is slightly overblown, and a lot of hypocracy from the right and the left. For Example:
One review by award-winning freelance writer Joanne Brokaw reports, "In what was the most disturbing and chilling scene of the documentary, a speaker talks candidly to the kids about abortion, explaining, 'One third of your friends could be here tonight but they never made it.' He challenges the kids to 'raise up a moral outcry and overturn abortion,' and by the end of the session these grade schoolers are in a shouting frenzy, pumping their fists in the air and parroting his call for 'Righteous judges! Righteous judges!'"
What's so disturbing about teaching kids that shop vacing an unborn is a bad thing? I guess if they were instead teaching these kids about their right to get an abortion at age 12 or 13, it wouldn't be so alarming. eh? Better yet, it's ok to teach 7 year olds in Lexington Mass. using a book about gay men getting married and kissing (King & King), without parental consent, but god forbid parents willingly let their kids learn about abortion. I find this funny.
"I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam,Ă˘â‚¬ Fischer says early in the film, according to Brokaw. Ă˘â‚¬Ĺ“I want to see them radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and Israel and Palestine and all of these different places.Ă˘â‚¬
Sorry, but that is fugging scary. This guy is a certifiable lunatic whacko. One could argue that Jesus was loving of all people, as opposed to Mohammed imposing his will with the sword, but this isn't the 1400's people. It is scary to think that this dude is in charge of a kids camp. Scary stuff.
Why are you Liberals so down on Christianity, this country was founded on it, why do liberals want to change America's culture, why do the bastards want to rewrite history, no other country in the world has the freedoms we have, what religon would you prefer for America or would you prefer "no religion", why do you stand up for foreigners that come to America and then they say our religion (christianity) offends them, I say "f-ck them" this is our culture, try going to Iran and tell them their religion offends you, they will imediately "KILL YOU".
:rocker: "thats right"
This is against my better judgment, but here it is:
Nobody is trying to change America's culture or rewrite history, or throwing stones at Christianity, at least not in this discussion.
We are discussing the wrong of / danger of religious-brainwashing of grade school age children and how troublesome that very thing is to every thinking (American, Russian, French, German, Iranian, Iraqi, Palestinian, Chinese, etc) human being especially since these grade school age children are being taught that there is a war going on and that they are the warriors.
We are saying that it is equally wrong for the Arab children, Kurdish children, Jewish children, American children and that it is equally wrong for Muslims, Jews, and/or Christians to be brainwashing/using children.
So you aspire to the same religious intolerance in this country as they have in some muslim nations! That's a great model to emulate!
All you have to do is replace the words Islam and Muslims in his posts with Christianity and Christians, and bingo, you have the writings of a Muslim terrorist.
Hawg you need to read closer. I'm saying what you are saying. Not sure if you know what you quoted here...go back to the beginning of the thread. I am totally for free speech..totally for freedom of religion and I am totally for letting people live as they choose...you got the wrong guy here.
Whether i agree or not parents have a right to raise their children as they see fit Turk. Honestly believing in true freedom means tolerating others even when they appear intolerable.
Do I think what these people are doing is right? Heck no..to me it is totally apalling and horrendous. But, as a believer in freedom I understand it is not for me to pass judgement. The could point to the TV my kids watch, the kids my kids go to school with and all that stuff and be equally totally apalled.
That is a major problem in this forum that I find hypocritical. The supposed compassionate left leaning members are actually more restrictive in their opinion of society than the real meanings of freedom. it's like they preach freedom under the umbrella of their generalizations.
I believe in true and honest freedom for all people. That means not telling others what is right and what is wrong. My opinion on anything neither makes it right or wrong because I believe in freedom. When people think their opinion is the final judgement on rightness and wrongness then they are lying if they say they believe in real and natural freedom.
of course, its ridiculous to base any kind of debate regarding Christianity on a loon fringe group such as this, but this is exactly what extemes from both the left and the right do.
If liberals have a problem with Jesus, they post an over the top example such as this to prove how "extreme" and "whacked out" Christians are.
And when SEan Hannity or Bill O'Reilly want to make a point, they have on their programs the most out in space far lefty nutcase they can possibly find.
God forbid we present reasonable arguements and discussions where both sides are represented by reasonable examples.
there are many people out there who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, yours truly being one, who dont have a desire to drive a tank into your living rooms and kill you for not believing.
and there are many truly wonderful liberal people out there who love their country and value life.
And guess what, sometimes the liberal also loves Jesus Christ, because Jesus focused much of his time and most of his parables on the idea of sharing and caring for others and he said "blessed are the peacekeepers"
But more important than who loves Jesus, is that Jesus loves everyone. So perhaps we can find room for a little more reason within ourselves and try to look for the good in each other.
Turk...Mikey is free to post here as he pleases...as we all are. However...go on his profile and read all his posts he has made in this forum...they form an editorial with the same theme. He may report the news as you say...but he reports the same news painting the same certain people out to be bad....that's his right...but don't say he just reports the news because his reporting has a message....he posts to state his opinion.
No thats "Hawgwash", what I aspire to is, Treat Christianity just as you treat Islam, Liberals never ever bash Allah do the same with Jesus H Christ.
Organized Religion turns me off but I respect those that it doesn't.
Liberals beat Jesus up because they know they can get away with it, they don't like the 10 Commandments because if they obeyed them it would f-ck up their lifestyle but the big reason the Neo Libs don't like Jesus is because most Neo Cons do like him.
Originally Posted by Turk
1. Mikey reports a piece of news, and nothing else.
I was describing the series of events in chronological order, and not making a general statement regarding all of Mikey's posts; just this one.
i don't think you can critique anyone on a singular post. Like I say..he has a right to post what he wishes...but if he thinks he's posting innocently he is mistaken....he carefully chooses all his links and they all carry the same message....they are not singular at all so it's easy to read between the lines every time he does it.
If you want to have further discussion on this matter, please respond to my earlier post in response to yours in which you questioned my commitment to FOS.
What you have responded to above, was my post answering the off target rantings of Harry and while doing so you have made the following contradiction:
In your own words "What these people are doing is horrendous and appalling" and yet you finish the very same sentence saying that you cannot pass judgement.
That is all that we have said as well on this matter.
No single liberal has stated that the compound should be closed down, the instructor should be jailed, etc.
All we said is the same thing that you are saying, now, that this type of brainwashing is troublesome.
On a seperate note, this does not fall under the generous umbrella of freedom of speech but rather under the disgusting umbrella of brainwashing / raising fanatics. Kids at that age should be on the playground keeping their innocence in tact and not having fits, rolling on the floor, raising their fists in religious anger, and most certainly not making a God out of GWB.
Grade school age kids, for Christ's sake, FBN?
No pun intended
What it boils down to is not a question of freedom of speech but rather a question of "appropriate".
Would you expose these same kids to porn, is that not also freedom of speech?
How about incest, genocide, inter-racial hatred?
What is appropriate to teach a grade school age kid?
I know a teacher or two that were busted for teaching about the wonderful joys of intercourse to students quite a bit older than these ones.
No liberal would have cared if the students were in their twenties, or thirties. We would have just shrugged and thought that it was another Friday night in the Carolinas.
I thought I did answer it...what is appalling to us may seem perfectly normal to them. I just don't see that we have a right to condemn them. If they are not breaking any laws I believe it is none of our business. I feel bad for the kids...but in this country, the parents are in their rights to raise as they see fit. That is not contradictary...it's unfortunately their own business.
We have many, many problems with our youth in this country. It's too hard to say we have it right Turk. I know i have it right...other parents know they have it right also....it's a parental thing that falls under the umbrella of parental rights....hope that explains my point of view.
In terms of my liberals/FOS statement...that is a reflection of this thread and others like it. I feel liberals in general are not as tolerable to other people and other cultures as they claim to be...many of the threads here support that point....from freedom of religion to immigration. Patters, GJ and Pujo support others across the board...some of the others I am not so sure they are walking the talk. For a supposed liberal...Mikey is very intollerant of many types of people and their religions which means he loves to complain and is a sham liberal to me....thus my critique.
I'm not sure what is it that gave you the impression that I am "intollerant".
On the contrary, I thought I have been pretty tolerant of all your insults and personal attacks.
Nice to hear Mikey...just post them so you know you are not fooling this member. We have many honest posters here...too bad you are not one of them. You are the most racist, fascist liberal I have ever read...which tells me you are not a liberal at all...you just hide as one because you hate Bush.
Come clean someday...it will cleanse your soul.
Fakers are bad for discussion...honesty makes the best discussion.
It's that honesty that makes this forum enjoyable and unique.
Separate names with a comma.