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Jermaine Cunningham - BUST

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by MrNathanDrake, Apr 24, 2010.

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  1. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake Rookie

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  2. TheComeback

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    Thanks for the tip, Nostradamus.
  3. StraightCashHomey81

    StraightCashHomey81 Rookie

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    Like many people on this board, you fail to realize that players like Graham and Hughes are too short for our two-gap 3-4 scheme, which requires taller, longer OLBs to set the edge in the run game. This is why BB has often spoken in the past about finding the 6'3-6'5 guys who run in the 4.6 range (Cunnigham: 6'3 266 lbs 4.68 40). Hughes and Graham both went to one-gap 4-3 teams. You obviously are too dumb or lazy to realize that successful scouting in the NFL is scheme specific. That or someone is just a wittle cwanky because they didn't get there binkies. wa wa wa.
  4. wilfork is beastin'

    wilfork is beastin' Rookie

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    This wasn't a highlights video, it was just showing all of his snaps for that particular game. Videos like this are a dime a dozen on youtube.

    The guy has 2 fewer career sacks than Dunlap and doesn't come with the questions about work ethics or character concerns. Every mock draft had him going in the 2nd or 3rd round and considered him an underrated prospect. I have several friends from Florida who are diehard Gators fans and they believe that he was a more disruptive force than Dunlap actually.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  5. satz

    satz Rookie

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    You forgot to do the spikes is a bust thread. As this guy and spikes met the coach together and had to do the X and O together as a package obviously he is a bust too.
  6. PatsFanJess

    PatsFanJess Rookie

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    Idk how anyone could possibly know if he's a bust or not at this point in time.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  7. Scooter_McGruder

    Scooter_McGruder Rookie

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    Totally a bust. He hasn't contributed anything to this team at all since he was drafted!
  8. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As mentioned numerous times now, Hughes' agent was Tom Condon/CAA sports. We do not deal with Condon/CAA sports, and haven't since Ben Watson became the only Patriot ever to hold of TC as a rookie.

    I suspect that Jerry Hughes was never even remotely considered.
  9. nowayback

    nowayback Rookie

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  10. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    Now I understand Hughes was your Binky, but Cunningham is mine! And as bad as you feel thats how good I feel! There are winners and losers today and until he messes up I win and you lose! HAHAHAHAHA
  11. zimmy

    zimmy Rookie

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    Taking Hughes in the 1st round would have been a huge waste. He would only have played on 3rd and long situations as he's too small to hold up in our system. You don't take aguy who can only play on 3rd down in the 1st round. I'm sure we may have considered Hughes at the bottom of the 2nd if he was there. Cunningham will be able to play all 3 downs and is big enough to play the run and get after the passer. Is he going to get 10 sacks a year? Maybe not but he will be an all-round solid OLB for us. He was clearly given a glowing review from Urban Meyer
  12. Marqui

    Marqui Rookie

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    At least he's better that Dunlop.
  13. Since1971

    Since1971 Rookie

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  14. O'Doyle Rules!

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    What a terrible post. That was ONE youtube video from ONE game the guy played and is incredibly useless in evaluating a player. What if I just posted some highlights from the game the Pats played last year against the Panthers. There was a certain receiver in that game, #81 I believe, who looked like he may have been 7th round to UDFA material...
  15. Snake Eyes

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    Please tell me exactly what the relationship is between height and setting the edge. I'm very curious why a 6'2 can't do it but a 6'3 guy can.
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hughes isn't 6'2..
  17. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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  18. DaBruinz

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    COMBINE says I'm correct.

    Jerry Huges - 6'1 6/8" tall.

    NFL.COM rounded up.... It's very well known.
    Draft Countdown - 2010 NFL Draft | Outside Linebacker Rankings

    As for the relationship information you're looking for, why not go and research it, not that I agree with what the person said..
  19. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Oh yes, that 1/4 of an inch, well that settles it, the guy's a damn midget.

    As for researching it, the one who states a premise is the one responsible for proving it. I think it's complete BS that people simply accept as gospel because they've heard a bunch of "experts" state it, much like the necessity for a QB to be 6'4 and taller even though Montana, Young, and Kurt Warner were all 6'2 and Drew Brees is just 6ft.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  20. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    Whilst I think Cunningham is a complete liability against the run, you could at least wait for the kid to get on the field. Honestly, the site is going downhill rapidly.
  21. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  22. TheBaronPatriot

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    Our OLBs are supposed to use their long arms to get their hands on the tackle first in order to prevent the T from dominating them. They punch with both hands... control the T and look to see where the run is going.

    A guy with shorter arms will not be able to do this.

    And thanks for the heads up.
    I was going to be optimistic and let this thing play out and give the kid a chance to be coached up, lift some weight,s and learn the D for a few years before making a judgement.

    But you just saved me all of that.
    Your scouting acumen is well known on this board.
    Hell, BB is a damn fool for not hiring you.
  23. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Those aren't "highlights", the person basically just showed you what he did on a bunch of snaps, even though the play is actually going away from him on a lot of those snaps. Also, that was just one game.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  24. TheBaronPatriot

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    He looked pretty good.
    Used his hands well to control the OT and did a nice job setting the edge.
    Which to a lot of people looks like he's running away from the play.
    But he's actually funneling it inside to the LBs and the D linemen.

    I think he can improve his hand usage, especially the secondary hand moves while rushing the passer.
  25. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Exactly, universal draft has a video of Spikes up, and a few of the plays where they seem to think he had bad awareness were actually instances of him taking on the pulling O-linemen, or filling the hole so his teammates could clean up.
  26. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    He looked pretty good to me...... He strikes me as a guy who sticks to the scheme. There were times he was showing a great first step and explosion. Other times he played balanced and maintained his position. He is going to be a pleasant surprise. Is he a freak, no. Dunlap sticks out like a sore thumb on the video. For both good and bad reasons, that's just not what NE is looking for.
  27. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    1) Just because a guy is 6'3 doesn't mean he'll have longer arms than a guy who is 6'2.

    2) Being able to control an opponent has a lot more to do with initial burst, technique, footwork, and structural stability than arm length does. The best judokas and wrestlers are not necessarily the ones with the longest arms.

    3) James Harrison says "hi". Also, how was a 5'11 Elvis Dumervil able to get 17 sacks as an OLB in a 3-4 this past year?

    4) How brilliant is BB for selecting Maroney and hiring Adalius Thomas?

    Sorry but your "conventional wisdom" about OLB height is dead wrong.
  28. StraightCashHomey81

    StraightCashHomey81 Rookie

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    Bruschi talked about this a few weeks out at the draft preview event, but it is not like its a new idea. Bruschi said he lasted 2 days at OLB because at
    6'1, he didn't have the ability to extend his arms against OTs. Thus, it made it much easier for a taller and longer OT to flip his hips and seal him off to the inside, allowing ballcarriers an open lane to the outside. He said the BB's prototype wasn't foolhardy or stubborness; it is neccessary. Short players like Graham and Hughes can't extend their arms and force run action to their inside, which is the essential function of OLBs in the Belichick/Parcells version of the two-gap 3-4. Tully Banta-Cain, at 6-2, has this same problem. See the 2006 AFC divisional game against San Diego when LT ran all over us to Tully's side (TBC subsequently lost his starting job the next week in the AFCG v. Indy, if you remember). This is why TBC is best (and primarily) used as a situational rusher. You want to pick a player in the first round who is only used situationally (like Graham or Hughes only could be in the Pats scheme)? I hope the Jets/Bills/Phins hire you as their next GM.

    Part of what Bruschi talked about can be found here: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4677154/bruschi-talks-olb-prototype
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  29. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Wow, it's amazing how much effort you're putting into an argument about arm length when the premise was height.

    I'm still wondering why players have been able to be very effective even though they lacked the height/arm length you claim is necessary. Jerry Hughes has longer arms then Elvis Dumervil, who racked up 17 sacks this season.

    I think this has a lot more to do with being immersed in a culture where certain things are accepted as facts and information is constantly introduced to support those facts, which is the exact opposite of being scientific where one constructs a theory to explain the information available. "Experts" like Mike Mayock will talk about the need for height on a QB but the fact that so many great QBs would be considered too short by him and many others demonstrates that it's not nearly as important as they claim.
  30. StraightCashHomey81

    StraightCashHomey81 Rookie

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    First of all, height more often than not corresponds with arm length. And it didn't take too much effort, because I actually attempt to understand football and scouting, and realize that player evaluation has to be scheme specific. And if I am being "immersed in a culture where certain things are accepted as facts and information is constantly introduced to support those facts", I'll cast my lot with the Belichick/Parcells wing of two-gap 3-4 OLB thinking. Only 7 SB appearances and 5 SB rings between them.

    Hughes: 6'2 33 inch arms.
    Graham: 6'1 32 1/4 inch arms
    Cunningham: 6'3 34 inch arms


    I know an inch may seem like a little to you- especially since I am immersed in the stubborn, misguided 5 SB ring winning BB/Parcells culture-but remember that arm length is also an important consideration and attribute in OTs. One of the main reasons (if not THE reason) Bryan Bulaga fell in this draft was his short arm length. If arm length is important to OTs, wouldn't it stand to reason its important to 3-4 OLBs?
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