Javon Walker To Visit Pats Today

[PonyExpress]

Saints are at #2 overall & GB is at #5. They could conceivably swap the picks in exchange for Walker. The Saints have been rumored to want to trade down for weeks. The Packers would love to get Mario Williams.

That would be a terrible trade for the Saints. To jump up to #2 would normally take the Packers the #5 + #18 picks in the draft.

 

[maverick4]

re

Saints are at #2 overall & GB is at #5. They could conceivably swap the picks in exchange for Walker. The Saints have been rumored to want to trade down for weeks. The Packers would love to get Mario Williams.

The Saints seem like a good trading partner. They can swap #2 with #5 (with additional picks thrown in), or trade a lesser pick and Dante Stallworth. Same thing with the Broncos (swap #15 and other picks) and Lelie.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I would give up our #2 IF the contract was decent enough that we could still re-do Branch. Walker, Branch, Caldwell, Watson, Graham would be the weapons we need to have our Ferrari QB to really hit the gas on the open road.

The bar has to be set a little higher than that on the contract. We have the money to re-do Branch, no question... we could re-do Branch and spend like idiots on Walker, no question... but we need to set his value somewhere reasonable (by the Pats' model.) There are other fish in the sea.

I think somewhere in the $5M/annum range is doable, same as Deion, with a stellar physical/workout. And a good deal of that money has to be tied to playing time, not given in salary and signing bonus. He can't expect the risk burden to fall on the Pats.

If the Broncos or Dolphins are willing to pay him like he just came off that 2004 season, let them. He just came off a torn ACL, gentlemen... let's keep that in mind.

PFnV

 

[Ayuh]

No one has put out the possibility that it is the day before the draft. Perhaps bringing in Walker for a closer look, and peddling the serious interest lines, is smokeshow for a grander scheme?

 

[zippo59]

The bar has to be set a little higher than that on the contract. We have the money to re-do Branch, no question... we could re-do Branch and spend like idiots on Walker, no question... but we need to set his value somewhere reasonable (by the Pats' model.) There are other fish in the sea.

I think somewhere in the $5M/annum range is doable, same as Deion, with a stellar physical/workout. And a good deal of that money has to be tied to playing time, not given in salary and signing bonus. He can't expect the risk burden to fall on the Pats.

If the Broncos or Dolphins are willing to pay him like he just came off that 2004 season, let them. He just came off a torn ACL, gentlemen... let's keep that in mind.

PFnV

I love Branch, but when both Walker and him are healthy Walker is in a completely different league as Branch. I don't see hpw the Pats could offer them similar money. Walker is a bonified #1 while Branch is a marginal #2 and #1. If that happned then either Walker is being underpaid or Branch is being overpaid.

P.S.- If I were Belichick during this meeting with Walker in Foxboro I would wear all my rings and casually scratch my head while standing in front of the trophies case with Walker.

 

[sarge]

Branch is a marginal #2

I agree Branch is not a stud #1, but he is an incredible #2!

 

[BelichickFan]

I agree Branch is not a stud #1, but he is an incredible #2!

Yeah, Branch is a fantastic #2 and a marginal #1 IMO.

 

[BelichickFan]

No one has put out the possibility that it is the day before the draft. Perhaps bringing in Walker for a closer look, and peddling the serious interest lines, is smokeshow for a grander scheme?

I wouldn't put it past Belichick to show interest just to make Denver up their ante. But I would imagine our interest is real.

 

[JoeSixPat]

No one has put out the possibility that it is the day before the draft. Perhaps bringing in Walker for a closer look, and peddling the serious interest lines, is smokeshow for a grander scheme?

It might be, but unfortunately its also "unzipping our fly" to a degree as BB's interest in an injured former #1 WR illustrates his feeling that the Patriots want to address a need at WR (even though many think we have no need there)

So if the Walker deal DOESN'T go down there are a bunch of competing GMs out there who will be counting the Pats as a team eyeing 1st round WRs prompting them to potentially move ahead of us or counter a move by the Pats to jump forward in the draft.

As far as Walker himself, while no one's been a bigger proponent of addressing our need at WR than I, an ACL tear is nothing to just cavalierly shrug off and assume Walker is in 2004 form.

We might well be outbid but I would offer the Packers a 4th or 5th rounder this year and a conditional pick for the 2007 draft... one that could be as high as our 2nd rounder if Walker performs to near 2004 levels.

 

[BelichickFan]

So if the Walker deal DOESN'T go down there are a bunch of competing GMs out there who will be counting the Pats as a team eyeing 1st round WRs prompting them to potentially move ahead of us or counter a move by the Pats to jump forward in the draft.

I don't think it would take a genius GM to expect the Patriots to be looking at WR in the draft. But if they're jumping ahead of us to "steal" the blah first round WR that are in this draft, I doubt Belichick will be too upset. I wouldn't be stunned if we took a first round WR but I surely don't expect it.

 

[Pats67]

I simply do not get this theory that Walker is a substantially better receiver than Deion Branch. The pure numbers/production don't back that up.

Walker:
02- 15 games, started 2, 23 catches, 13.9 avg. 1 TD
03 - 16 games, started 3, 41 catches, 17.5 avg. 9 TD
04 - 16 games, started 12, 89 catches, 1382 yards, 15.5 avg., 12 TD (best season, great year)
05 - 1 game in which he suffered season ending inury.
Career: 48 games, 18 starts, 157 catches, 2444 yards, 15.6 avg., 22 TD's.

Branch:
02- 13 games, 7 starts, 43 catches, 11.4 avg., 2 TD
03 - 15 games, 11 starts, 57 catches, 14.1 avg., 3 TD
04 - 9 games, 9 starts, 35 catches, 13.0 avg., 4 TD
05 - 16 games, 15 starts, 78 catches, 998 yards, 12.8 avg. 5 TD's.
Career: 53 games, 42 starts, 213 catches, 2744 yards, 12.9 avg., 14 TD's.

Walker obviously had a great year in 04, but keep in mind that Green Bay was much more dependant on their passing offense that year (1st in the league in passing attempts, Patriots were 22nd; Patriots were 5th in rushing attempts, Green Bay was 16th). Both he and Driver were in excess of 80 catches that year, and Green added 40, as well as others. Seems like an offensive system that was conducive to big numbers from the receivers. I don't think that's been the case here, considering how much the ball gets spread around.

In any event, aside from a superlative 04, I'm not sure what Walker has done to warrant the belief that he's vastly superior to Branch, who, it should be noted, has has two of the greatest receiving days in Super Bowl history, and a MVP.

I thuink its much more reasonable to say that they are two different players that have pretty similar track records when taken in total. I would be excited about a Walker deal, but at the same time, let's not forget what a good player we already have.

 

[PonyExpress]

I simply do not get this theory that Walker is a substantially better receiver than Deion Branch. The pure numbers/production don't back that up.

Walker:
02- 15 games, started 2, 23 catches, 13.9 avg. 1 TD
03 - 16 games, started 3, 41 catches, 17.5 avg. 9 TD
04 - 16 games, started 12, 89 catches, 1382 yards, 15.5 avg., 12 TD (best season, great year)
05 - 1 game in which he suffered season ending inury.
Career: 48 games, 18 starts, 157 catches, 2444 yards, 15.6 avg., 22 TD's.

Branch:
02- 13 games, 7 starts, 43 catches, 11.4 avg., 2 TD
03 - 15 games, 11 starts, 57 catches, 14.1 avg., 3 TD
04 - 9 games, 9 starts, 35 catches, 13.0 avg., 4 TD
05 - 16 games, 15 starts, 78 catches, 998 yards, 12.8 avg. 5 TD's.
Career: 53 games, 42 starts, 213 catches, 2744 yards, 12.9 avg., 14 TD's.

Walker obviously had a great year in 04, but keep in mind that Green Bay was much more dependant on their passing offense that year (1st in the league in passing attempts, Patriots were 22nd; Patriots were 5th in rushing attempts, Green Bay was 16th). Both he and Driver were in excess of 80 catches that year, and Green added 40, as well as others. Seems like an offensive system that was conducive to big numbers from the receivers. I don't think that's been the case here, considering how much the ball gets spread around.

In any event, aside from a superlative 04, I'm not sure what Walker has done to warrant the belief that he's vastly superior to Branch, who, it should be noted, has has two of the greatest receiving days in Super Bowl history, and a MVP.

I thuink its much more reasonable to say that they are two different players that have pretty similar track records when taken in total. I would be excited about a Walker deal, but at the same time, let's not forget what a good player we already have.

I had the misfortune of watching many packer games over the years and Walker is a marginal #1. He drops alot of passes. Maybe with a superior quarterback throwing him catchable balls he could improve.

 

[Pats67]

Jerome Soloman is saying on a draft chat that Walker isn't in New England at all.

 

[Badger]

I simply do not get this theory that Walker is a substantially better receiver than Deion Branch. The pure numbers/production don't back that up.

Walker:
02- 15 games, started 2, 23 catches, 13.9 avg. 1 TD
03 - 16 games, started 3, 41 catches, 17.5 avg. 9 TD
04 - 16 games, started 12, 89 catches, 1382 yards, 15.5 avg., 12 TD (best season, great year)
05 - 1 game in which he suffered season ending inury.
Career: 48 games, 18 starts, 157 catches, 2444 yards, 15.6 avg., 22 TD's.

Branch:
02- 13 games, 7 starts, 43 catches, 11.4 avg., 2 TD
03 - 15 games, 11 starts, 57 catches, 14.1 avg., 3 TD
04 - 9 games, 9 starts, 35 catches, 13.0 avg., 4 TD
05 - 16 games, 15 starts, 78 catches, 998 yards, 12.8 avg. 5 TD's.
Career: 53 games, 42 starts, 213 catches, 2744 yards, 12.9 avg., 14 TD's.

Walker obviously had a great year in 04, but keep in mind that Green Bay was much more dependant on their passing offense that year (1st in the league in passing attempts, Patriots were 22nd; Patriots were 5th in rushing attempts, Green Bay was 16th). Both he and Driver were in excess of 80 catches that year, and Green added 40, as well as others. Seems like an offensive system that was conducive to big numbers from the receivers. I don't think that's been the case here, considering how much the ball gets spread around.

In any event, aside from a superlative 04, I'm not sure what Walker has done to warrant the belief that he's vastly superior to Branch, who, it should be noted, has has two of the greatest receiving days in Super Bowl history, and a MVP.

I thuink its much more reasonable to say that they are two different players that have pretty similar track records when taken in total. I would be excited about a Walker deal, but at the same time, let's not forget what a good player we already have.

As an advocate for obtaining Walker, I have never said that he is vastly superior to Branch. Probably just as good though and equally as young. He would be a great compliment to Branch and to lock these 2 up for years to come would be a tremendous benefit to this team and we could address other needs.

 

[RayClay]

I had the misfortune of watching many packer games over the years and Walker is a marginal #1. He drops alot of passes. Maybe with a superior quarterback throwing him catchable balls he could improve.

Favre throws a very catchable ball.

Defensive backs catch 4-5 of them a game.

 

[rabthepat]

Interesting...

I simply do not get this theory that Walker is a substantially better receiver than Deion Branch. The pure numbers/production don't back that up.

Walker:
02- 15 games, started 2, 23 catches, 13.9 avg. 1 TD
03 - 16 games, started 3, 41 catches, 17.5 avg. 9 TD
04 - 16 games, started 12, 89 catches, 1382 yards, 15.5 avg., 12 TD (best season, great year)
05 - 1 game in which he suffered season ending inury.
Career: 48 games, 18 starts, 157 catches, 2444 yards, 15.6 avg., 22 TD's.

Branch:
02- 13 games, 7 starts, 43 catches, 11.4 avg., 2 TD
03 - 15 games, 11 starts, 57 catches, 14.1 avg., 3 TD
04 - 9 games, 9 starts, 35 catches, 13.0 avg., 4 TD
05 - 16 games, 15 starts, 78 catches, 998 yards, 12.8 avg. 5 TD's.
Career: 53 games, 42 starts, 213 catches, 2744 yards, 12.9 avg., 14 TD's.

Walker obviously had a great year in 04, but keep in mind that Green Bay was much more dependant on their passing offense that year (1st in the league in passing attempts, Patriots were 22nd; Patriots were 5th in rushing attempts, Green Bay was 16th). Both he and Driver were in excess of 80 catches that year, and Green added 40, as well as others. Seems like an offensive system that was conducive to big numbers from the receivers. I don't think that's been the case here, considering how much the ball gets spread around.

In any event, aside from a superlative 04, I'm not sure what Walker has done to warrant the belief that he's vastly superior to Branch, who, it should be noted, has has two of the greatest receiving days in Super Bowl history, and a MVP.

I thuink its much more reasonable to say that they are two different players that have pretty similar track records when taken in total. I would be excited about a Walker deal, but at the same time, let's not forget what a good player we already have.

Good statistical info...

 

[JoeSixPat]

I agree Branch is not a stud #1, but he is an incredible #2!

We sometimes forget that as of now, Branch has only one year of #1 numbers - hence another reason why I view WR as an area of need, even though many disagree

And by #1 numbers, I mean 78 catches - some #1 WRs have 20 more catches than that in a season, but I recognize that BB likes to spread the ball

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I love Branch, but when both Walker and him are healthy Walker is in a completely different league as Branch. I don't see hpw the Pats could offer them similar money. Walker is a bonified #1 while Branch is a marginal #2 and #1. If that happned then either Walker is being underpaid or Branch is being overpaid.

P.S.- If I were Belichick during this meeting with Walker in Foxboro I would wear all my rings and casually scratch my head while standing in front of the trophies case with Walker.

Okay first of all, Zippo, this is not a knock on you, and God knows we all hear the phrase more than we read it, BUT, it's bona fide, not bonified (from the Latin, "good faith".)

Secondly, we might need a little more fide than we acknowledge, calling Walker a solid #1 expectation. There's an ACL that could be healing nicely or not to consider, and there's also the inconsistent showing to think about. We are looking at a guy with one "#1 receiver" season.

Hey, I love the guy and think he probably is what he looks like, but I have doubt in my mind, which translates to risk at the bargaining table. I don't know what BB says about that risk.

That said, contracting is all about risk management. If you never risk, you never reap the benefits - your risk is what you add to known factors to reap a return on an investment. In other words, the stock market may tank on you, and your investments may turn to junk bonds... but probably not, especially if you manage your risks well. Same goes for players, all of whom carry some measure of risk. These risks are reflected in contracts.

Never been injured? Never missed a game? Then I don't need to structure playing time incentives into the contract. That's all I'm talking about with Walker.

Now in terms of the money, yeah okay I can see your point, and I can see the Pats going higher than 5M/year, but not much... one of our more astute capologists says he thinks Branch gets an offer of about 5.5M a year, with a good deal of upfront money. I can see same offer, less upfront. The Pats were offering something in the 4-5/year range for Derrick Mason, who had a track record of seasons approaching Walker's 2004, PLUS could return kicks and punts. They've basically annointed Branch the #1 receiver, because the numbers he puts up in a spread attack would translate to #1 status elsewhere (likely,) just as Givens calculates will be the case when he goes to Tennessee. Similarly, though we don't want to pass on a good (maybe great) receiver, we have to recognize while another team may pivot on his performance, the Pats can only value him by what he brings to the table in New England... which will not zero in on him the way Favre did in GB in 2004.

I say give him a New England offer, and see if he likes how those rings look... don't try to break the bank on him, don't hope instead of plan just because you like the look of a game tape in 2004, or the look of his name on a Pats jersey. Don't worry about what Miami or Denver thinks he's worth.

Keep it in perspective - it's exciting to think about Walker here, and yes we want an upgrade at receiver, no doubt. But don't think about needing Walker. Let the prospect need. The Pats evaluate.

PFnV

 

[AzPatsFan]

We sometimes forget that as of now, Branch has only one year of #1 numbers - hence another reason why I view WR as an area of need, even though many disagree

And by #1 numbers, I mean 78 catches - some #1 WRs have 20 more catches than that in a season, but I recognize that BB likes to spread the ball

Walker has had only one good season... He only started to look good in 2004...

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

Walker has had only one good season... He only started to look good in 2004...

well branch struggled his first season as well. walker is a questionmark, but hes better than any wr in the draft