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Jason Taylor or Kevin Faulk

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Mar 26, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Without cutting players with major salaries, we will already need to have a restructure or two in order to sign the rookies and have the cap money to go into the season. That's fine. That's business as usual.

    If we want Taylor, either he needs to play for about what Woods plays for or we will need to figure out where to get the cap monies.

    One option is to cut Faulk and draft a running back or two to replace Faulk and Green-Ellis. Surely, Taylor AND Morris AND Maroney AND two rookies can handle the load and put us in good shaper for the future. Hopefully one of the rookies will turn out to be a major contributor.
    ===================

    Well, I made the argument as best I can. My choice would be to extend Faulk and not worry about Taylor.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think we have a little to spare actually. Miguel is guessing we're around $4.3M under the cap with 50 players signed (if I counted right). The draft picks won't cost much, for an example #2, Wheatley's cap hit was $615K last year. And for the #1, Meriweather was $1.4M as a rookie. As we have 50 players signed, the hit to our cap will be those relatively small amounts minus a minimum salary guy at around $400K or so.
  3. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    With the money we save by replacing BJGE with a rookie, the Patriots won't save enough to sign another cheerleader, never mind Jason Taylor. :eek:

    I've never been a huge Kevin Faulk fan. The less he touches the ball, the lower my stress levels during a game. But I don't know about replacing him with a rookie for third downs. If he hadn't been suspended for the first game of the season last year, Pollard probably never makes it to Brady's knee.

    Right now I think a good third down back is more important than Taylor.
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :) If Faulk were to go, I would want to use two draft picks to find a replacement. One would likely replace Green-Ellis.


  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see it being a problem getting Taylor signed without any major renegotiations or cuts. All they would need to do is convert some of Brady's and/or Light's base salary into a signing bonus. We aren't talking signing Peppers to a long term deal. We are talking signing Jason Taylor probably to a two to three year deal. We are probably talking a cap hit of $2-3 million this year for Taylor. Fred Taylor's cap number is only about $700k more than Woods and he is getting paid significantly more.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Remember, though, the 30% rule applies to renegotiated contracts, not just new ones. So, for example, if the Pats want to convert Brady's salaries to signing bonuses, they need to convert much of his 2010 salary, as well.
  7. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I want Kevin Faulk on this team. Period.
  8. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    This is a totally false choice, IMO. We will have Faulk AND Taylor on this team if we feel like it. They are not even CLOSE to mutually exclusive.
  9. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    Why radomly oust Faulk?

    He has such a key role and comes up so clutch time and time again....I just can't see us cutting Faulk.
  10. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's because of that new rule forbidding teams who have players named Faulk on the team from signing a player named Taylor.

    No seriously it's a bizarre choice because Kevin Faulk retires a Patriot.
  11. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    If I had to choose between them, im choosing Faulk. I don't know what the hell 'spacecrime' is talking about. Faulk has kept alot drives going over the years. Personally, i could care less if Taylor plays for us this year, or not. If BB wants him, he'll find a way to sign him, but it wont be at Faulks expense. Faulk is going nowhere. We do need to start looking at a replacement for him, so im not at all opposed to drafting rb's. He has less wear, and tear than some rb's, but he's still getting up there in age.
  12. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    This makes sense. I've never been a huge Kevin Faulk fan but he's really good at what he does and all. Totally man.

    I don't get the stress thing? He had fumbling problems earlier in his career but he has 1 fumble (and no lost fumbles) in the last 3 seasons, in which he has been the most important running back in the offense.

    If it comes down between a large investment in an unsure thing and a guy who's one of the most important pieces on the offense (it wouldn't anyways), you take the latter. That's Faulk.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  13. SladeRider

    SladeRider Rookie

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    I think the Pats can get both without losing the other. But if I had to chose between the two, it would be Faulk everytime.

    Faulk is an important cog in the offense, a great 3rd down running back who can catch out the backfield and make something happen to get the 1st down, he is a valuable weapon to have on offense and from the games I've seen of him (the last 2 seasons), there hasn't been any major problems.
  14. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    If there were a category for "shotgun RB", Faulk would be a Pro Bowler.

    And the shotgun is huge for the Pats.

    He stays.
  15. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can't handle losing any more of the 2001 guys this year. Plus I love that little Faulker.

    But I think we end up with both.
  16. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    I declare this the official off-season let's cut Kevin Faulk thread! There is one of these every year on this board and it never makes any sense. I'm stunned there is still a segment of the fan base who can't see Faulk's production level.

    Patsox23 summed up this thread perfectly - Taylor signing would not mean cutting Faulk and linking them together like this is just a false premise.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  17. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    Faulk is one of the most valuable players on the team, and probably the best on third down where he is also one of the best in the league. Our best receiver out of the backfield who consistently moves the chains and picks up the blitz. He has improved every year and nobody made more big plays last year than Kevin Faulk.
  18. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I ahree with this as well...I think the team will have both!!
  19. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Guys we can only have either Richard Seymour or Vince Wilfork cause the cap guys.
  20. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Rookie

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    I agree, but i also think that Kevin Faulk deserves a mention :p
  21. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i dont know why they would have to be mutually exclusive of eachother. wouldnt signing jason taylor make jarvis green more expendable? i know faulk's release would give us more cap space, but i feel like it would be green and not faulk to go
  22. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Kevin Faulk is a first down machine? In the last 5 years he has been one of the most consistent and dependable Patriot on the offensive side of the ball.

    Me thinks the Patriots aren’t even considering cutting him.
  23. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    Its funny you mention Kevin Faulk and most valuable player. Every time he touches the ball, he makes positive yards I yell at the television "Kevin Faulk MVP!!" I love the game he brings. He would be a huge loss, especially on third downs, if he were gone.
  24. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But both Brady's and Light's 2010 salaries and cap hits are currently less than 2009. That means the Pats can renegotiate either salary down at least a bit before the 30% rule comes into place. Brady's current salary is $5 mill and cap hit is $12.6 mill. Next year he has a $3.5 mill base and a $10.2 mil cap hit. Light currently has a $4.25 mil base and a $5.5 cap hit. Next year he has a $4.5 mil base and a $4.7 mil cap hit. So there is clearly some room for the Pats to work with before they have to worry about the 30% rule. They would not have to convert either player's 2010 salary at least up to a certain point.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  25. Gene In Montana

    Gene In Montana Rookie

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    Kevin Faulk has been "MONEY" on the field!!!
  26. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In's interesting that you posted this about 3 weeks after your previous poll on this issue:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/221289-who-who-would-you-choose.html

    That poll had a 2-to-1 preference for keeping Faulk over signing either Jason Taylor or Ray Lewis. I was one of the people in the Faulk camp.

    I fully appreciate Faulk's contributions, but I do understand the logic of considering the other approach. Faulk will be 33 this year, is a role player, is in a contract year, and has a $4M cap hit (with $3M saved if he is cut or traded). Trading Faulk and drafting someone like Devin Moore to replace him would result in a younger, cheaper alternative, and his money could be used to bring in Taylor in a starting role at OLB on a 2 year deal.

    I'm not saying that we do it. I remain a big Faulk fan. But with the other moves that the FO has made in free agency, I'm not sure it is as open-and-shut as it once was.
  27. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just to be clear, the cap hits play no part in the 30% rule. We're both right, though—any new contract must be compliant with the rule, but there is some room for maneuvering in both contracts (for Brady, they could convert ~$2.4M, saving $1.2M, without doing anything to 2010; for Light, they could convert ~$1.4M, saving $700K).
  28. abdul7

    abdul7 Rookie

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    Kevin Faulk = The most under rated player in the NFL ! Too valuable as a good blocker and 3rd down. No way we lose him. Just cant believe how some of us can even consider losing him. Peace.
  29. MoLewisrocks

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    The guesstimates are that we would only bring Taylor in here at a cap hit of $2-3M in 2009. So if Brady and Light could be seemlessly tweeked to free up almost $2M a couple of cuts of salary only recent signings currently residing within the 51 might be sufficient to get it done. And there is always the option of doing something with Faulk's contract. He's due to receive $3.4M in salary and roster bonus in his last season. A 1 year extension that basically converts his $500K roster bonus due week 1 and half his 2009 salary ($1.45M) to a $1.95M signing bonus he gets up front in exchange for 1 more season at $1.88M with all salaries guaranteed would be cap compliant and free up another $1.4M. Given his age and position $5.3M in guaranteed money thru 2010 and any otion of being cut off the table should make Faulk happy.

    Given the present constrictions there doesn't appear to be much else available in the way of tweaking for cap room that wouldn't expose the team to risk in the event 2010 is capped or set precedents that undermine the existing compensation model that has served it well.
  30. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Crazy Post
    1)maroney even when he was healthy was NOT put in blocking downs early in his career. we are talking about a high first round pick.
    2)Kevin faulk and heath evans are the 2 best blockers even last year.morris and jordan were okay not good.
    3)Having already lost evans now the plan to cut faulk so definitely blowing the blocking backs for our QB.He is excellent chip blocker .
    4)At his size he takes on 50lbs or so bigger guys and buys enough time and is one of the best 3rd down block.
    5)plays the slot and split wide and have tremendous hands.
    6)Hr avg some ridiculour 6 yds/carry last year.
    7)leading receiving RB in pats history.

    PLAN:Draft a rookie in the 3rd and replace him ..... wish things were so easy and every team will have a faulk.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
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