Jason Taylor: Bad Fit?

[satz]

Vrabel was more of a 3 down LB then taylor and cost of cutting 1 and getting other is not great. I see that BB and Peas must see alot more from woods or crabel/reed pair to let him go.

Woods started what 3 games so i must say he will be definitely in the mix.
woods is 26 and is young .vrabel had zero production till 28 so i am not given up on woods at such a young age.

same applies for hobbs who is only 3rd yr in the league and is quiet young.

 

[TripleOption]

4.) The league really needs to rein in this "off-season workouts" crap. The whole point of the word voluntary has been subverted. I really hope that the next CBA takes a stand on this.

Why? This isn't college or HS. It's professional football. The teams should be able to have as many workouts as they please. Do you go to "voluntary work"? Why shouldn't the NFL as employers be able to require their highly paid employees to attend these sessions? There is really no off season in the NFL anymore.

 

[TripleOption]

For the record, Ray Lewis played and started 14 games his rookie year, and had 110 tackles, I would say that is a significant contribution.

That being said, your point is a valid one.

Ray Lewis is likely one of the best defensive players to ever play in the NFL. I don't think it's fair to expect the same from most rookies.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why? This isn't college or HS. It's professional football. The teams should be able to have as many workouts as they please. Do you go to "voluntary work"? Why shouldn't the NFL as employers be able to require their highly paid employees to attend these sessions? There is really no off season in the NFL anymore.

Whether you like it or not, teams are not allowed to have "as many workouts as they please". It's in the CBA.

 

[Bring Back Antowain!]

If he's signed for the same amount of money we would be paying Vrabel, it doesn't make any sense to me honestly:

Vrabel = Knows the system, leader within the system, 3 down LB, unquestioned committment to football.

Taylor = Doesn't know the system, doesn't know the team, likely a third down LB given injury and adjustment to system, may not have his heart totally in it.

Both similar in age, I just don't see them trading Vrabel to replace him with Taylor.

I COMPLETELY agree with you.

If Taylor is signed anywhere close to Vrabel money, it is a complete waste. Complete waste.

I'd even contemplate Peppers vs. Vrabel because of the cost factor and experience factor and consistency factor and leadership factor... and wow, well there's a lot of reasons.

The only real option I see is picking up a Connor Barwin or Clint Sintim in the draft... and whether or not that happens looking at a Jason Taylor type for the MINIMUM.

 

[RodThePat]

If he's signed for the same amount of money we would be paying Vrabel, it doesn't make any sense to me honestly:

Vrabel = Knows the system, leader within the system, 3 down LB, unquestioned committment to football.

Taylor = Doesn't know the system, doesn't know the team, likely a third down LB given injury and adjustment to system, may not have his heart totally in it.

Both similar in age, I just don't see them trading Vrabel to replace him with Taylor.

I'll play devil's advocate:

Jason Taylor = Arguably the best pass rusher of the last decade; freakish athlete; has one a Defensive Player of The Year Award playing OLB under Saban in a system which was very similar to ours; has our OL and Brady's number (something that always draws BB's attention).

 

[satz]

Ray Lewis is likely one of the best defensive players to ever play in the NFL. I don't think it's fair to expect the same from most rookies.

Isn`t lewis a ILB and we are talking about a DE to OLB coversion ?.

 

[Sicilian]

I'll play devil's advocate:

Jason Taylor = Arguably the best pass rusher of the last decade; freakish athlete; has one a Defensive Player of The Year Award playing OLB under Saban in a system which was very similar to ours; has our OL and Brady's number (something that always draws BB's attention).

Definitely true, and if that's what BB determines in his own mind, he certainly knows better than I do. My point was simply that we're not comparing Taylor to Vrabel at the height of their careers and given equal outside circumstances. That makes the comparison a lot more complicated.

Why? This isn't college or HS. It's professional football. The teams should be able to have as many workouts as they please. Do you go to "voluntary work"? Why shouldn't the NFL as employers be able to require their highly paid employees to attend these sessions? There is really no off season in the NFL anymore.

My company doesn't offer "voluntary work", but if it did, then punished me for not showing up for this "voluntary work", I would be within my legal rights to sue them.

 

[MassPats38]

I'll play devil's advocate:

Jason Taylor = Arguably the best pass rusher of the last decade; freakish athlete; has one a Defensive Player of The Year Award playing OLB under Saban in a system which was very similar to ours; has our OL and Brady's number (something that always draws BB's attention).

I would add Pioli wanted Vrabel because KC is a very young team and nobody can question whether Vrabel is a solid mentor. Despite Taylor's skills, it would not be clear to Pioli that Taylor is the same presence in a locker room, or that Taylor would want to go to a rebuilding team at this stage of his career.

Cassel and Vrabel were a package deal, and Belichick did not want to keep Cassel's salary on the Pats' account. At this point, the question would be is there an adequate alternative to Vrabel. I do not think Belichick was looking to deal Vrabel with Cassel. Pioli wanted him for the KC defense and got him using the Cassel deal as leverage.

 

[TripleOption]

Whether you like it or not, teams are not allowed to have "as many workouts as they please". It's in the CBA.

I understand that, but you seemed like you feel there is some grave injustice being done. I would rather see that removed from the CBA. It makes no sense to have "voluntary workouts".

 

[TripleOption]

Isn`t lewis a ILB and we are talking about a DE to OLB coversion ?.

I was referring to one poster saying rookies don't contribute as much and another citing Ray Lewis's rookie stats as an example of rookie production.

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand that, but you seemed like you feel there is some grave injustice being done. I would rather see that removed from the CBA. It makes no sense to have "voluntary workouts".

How does it make sense to require these players to come in for camp after camp during the offseason AND have to show up for the offseason conditioning? When did it become reasonable to deny these men any time with their families?

 

[Ring 6]

I'm ambivalent about Taylor.
Personally, the players I have always least respected are the undersized pass rushing DEs who rush the QB every snap and get dominated in the run game. Taylor is by far the most workable of all of them because he isnt a turnstile but he certainly isnt a plus vs the run.
On the other hand, he possesses skills, and I have no doubt BB would find a way to use them to his advantage.
Take him or leave him, IMO, and I think the net result of having Taylor vs whoever else we would spend the cap money on is 0. We win the same number of games with him or whoever gets the cap hit.

 

[Ring 6]

How does it make sense to require these players to come in for camp after camp during the offseason AND have to show up for the offseason conditioning? When did it become reasonable to deny these men any time with their families?

Your kidding right?
It is their JOB. Add up all of the time they put into their job in a year, and its part-time. They spend more time with their families than anyone with a 40 hour a week job does.

 

[Deus Irae]

Your kidding right?
It is their JOB. Add up all of the time they put into their job in a year, and its part-time. They spend more time with their families than anyone with a 40 hour a week job does.

No, I'm not kidding, and it's NOT their job.

 

[Ring 6]

Whether you like it or not, teams are not allowed to have "as many workouts as they please". It's in the CBA.

But all of the workouts they do have are in the CBA, as is the fact that your contract can be terminated for ANY reason, or without reason, which would include not showing up for voluntary workouts, which by the way, are designed to help you become a better player.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I'm not kidding, and it's NOT their job.

What do you think their job is?

 

[Deus Irae]

What do you think their job is?

Is it really necessary for me to repost from earlier in the thread? It's not in the CBA as mandatory workouts. It's supposed to be voluntary. And your contract cannot be terminated for ANY reason.

Seriously, what the hell is so difficult about this? If the teams think these events should be mandatory, let them bargain for that in the next CBA. If not, stop *****ing about players that actually take the word "voluntary" to mean voluntary.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I'm not kidding, and it's NOT their job.

Interesting that Bill Belichick feels off-season workouts are important enough that he makes a public example of the players that work the hardest during them and you think they dont matter.

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting that Bill Belichick feels off-season workouts are important enough that he makes a public example of the players that work the hardest during them and you think they dont matter.

Interesting that you think "Not in the CBA" somehow is an identical match to "don't matter".