James Laurinaitis?

[TruthSeeker]

I have and Lauranitis is my pick. He is a very smart, an actual leader. he won the Butkis award and was an Academic All American too. He leads in INTs; and sacks as well as playing the run. A true 3 down ILB, and QB of the Defense for the next decade or more.

Agreed, I think I'd be overjoyed if he were there at #23 and we took him. With him and Mayo in the middle, we'd be set for a decade. I know Mayo was the DROY, but he basically was invisile during passing downs, no sacks, no INT's. I think we will see Mayo unleashed this year, and he will blitz more in 2009, as well as be more of a force in the passing game (INT's), but I think Laurinitis will be a force in the passing game defense from day one.

I think if he came out last year and we drafted him @ #7 overall, everyone would have been thrilled. I think it becomes a case of over analyzing, but plain and simple, Laurinitis is a football player. A very talented one whom I'd be proud to root for, and be thrilled if he's a Patriot.

 

[condon84]

No way this guy gets out of the first round. He is good in pass coverage, is durable, has shown he has the speed to get to the QB or apply pressure when called upon to blitz, has great football "IQ", and more importantly, he is super competitive. He is also a leader who displayed it even when he was a sophomore. He may not have the perceived "upside" that other LBs are getting, but this guy is a player and will be rock solid.

 

[condon84]

Unlike Posluszny, I've never seen Laurinaitis stack and shed an OL. I've seen him get buried, I've seen him try to run around them, and I've seen him run away from them, I've never seen him stand one up and shed him to wrap up the RB. Posluszny was a fan favorite and a kid I liked, but not for NE, he wound up exactly where he needed to be to excell at LB. In NE he'd be scrapping for Izzo's job.

You noted Laurninaitis has stacked and shed blockers, Ochmed reports similar improvement, and I'd like to believe both of you are correct and the kid was starting to step up and ragdoll OL, but my lying eyes have been telling me different for three seasons. I rank him as a late second round value for NE, because his "listed" size does seem to fit NE 3-4 parameters, and he can probably learn to do the job, but he's a better value for a team looking for a 4-3 WLB - heck, send him to Buffalo to play next to Posluszney.

I'm betting Laurenaitis weighs in at the Combine, or his Pro-Day depending on how he and his agent try to market his skills, in the low 230s. Like too many kids, he'll be trying to sell the NFL gurus on how quick he is in the three-cone and speedy in the 40 - dropping weight is a favorite tactic before the meat market.

To be fair, OSU LBs are not asked to engage blockers like NE players are asked to do. They shoot the gaps and because of that, can be picked off and pancaked. Whether he can effectively shed NFL lineman or not, I haven't seen enough film to answer that question, but I am sure if we do pick him, BB believes he can shed blockers and be effective in that area.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To be fair, OSU LBs are not asked to engage blockers like NE players are asked to do. They shoot the gaps and because of that, can be picked off and pancaked. Whether he can effectively shed NFL lineman or not, I haven't seen enough film to answer that question, but I am sure if we do pick him, BB believes he can shed blockers and be effective in that area.

Yep, that's how Ohio State does business, which makes it a little harder to evaluate their LBs for NE's 3-4. Still, at some point in the game a LB has to face up to the offense at the point of attack, and you then have some data to use in your projection.

 

[mcsully]

To be fair, OSU LBs are not asked to engage blockers like NE players are asked to do. They shoot the gaps and because of that, can be picked off and pancaked. Whether he can effectively shed NFL lineman or not, I haven't seen enough film to answer that question, but I am sure if we do pick him, BB believes he can shed blockers and be effective in that area.

I see your point but I think his lack of experience shedding blockers and not attacking the point of contact really hinders his chances coming here.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with you.

However, you must understand that many here believe that Belichick has a secret list of linebackers starters who ha can simply draft in the second third or foruth round. The fact that we've need linebacker as long as Belichick has been here, and that he has never found a starter other than in the Top 10 doesn't affect opinions. Of course, there are those who think we have a starter in Guyton. If this is so, the need is much less on Day One of the draft.

I well understand those who don't find Lauranitis the typical Belichick linebacker. Everyone has his own choice that he would pick before Laurinitis. Most of this board believes that Sintim has a better future. IMHO, we would be lucky to get Laurinitis at 23.

What are the "intangibles" that Belichick ALWAYS seeks? Smart, intense, "football is important", leader type. Check, check, check, check. Put those BB intangibles on an athletic, fast, BIG ILB, and what do you get?

A BB pick if he's there, and maybe a mild tradeup. BB says he doesn't gamble with first round picks. Is JL a gamble, in any sense, compared to others ? NO.

Just because Tedy was the leader of the Defense did not mean that BB didn't go after Vrabel who has the smarts and leadership to QB the Defense, too. And maybe a future on field coach, if Tedy retires...

 

[PatriotsInGA]

I think it worked with jerod mayo, why not laurinatis?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think it worked with jerod mayo, why not laurinatis?

Because he's not Jerod Mayo and all the little animal lovers can cheer him on, but he's another of a long line of college MLB who has people slavering for him yet doesn't seem to fit the NE LB mould. I'm not even that high on him as a 4-3 MLB, let Buffalo have him for WLB.

 

[patchick]

However, you must understand that many here believe that Belichick has a secret list of linebackers starters who ha can simply draft in the second third or foruth round.

This strikes me as an odd windmill you're tilting against. I've generally found the opposite, that most here tend to be very skeptical about the Pats' ability to find any ILBs close to starter-ready outside of the very elite prospects (Willis, Mayo, Curry).

Laurinaitis has been a controversial prospect here for the past 2 years. Some argue for him based largely on his intangibles, which always makes me nervous with college ILBs. Others look at the style he succeeded with in college being far removed from what's required of a Pats ILB and doubt he'd be as effective working through trash and engaging linemen. Still others take a middle path, arguing that his size and athleticism project well to those skills, even if he hasn't been asked to showcase them to this point. Reasonable people can disagree.

 

[mgteich]

1) I agree there is no ILB that we have any chance of getting that is Top 10 material.
2) We are all stretching to find a LB that we want at 23, because we think that this is a good year for linebackers, and we could use a linebacker. I'm not sure that LB is the best Round 1 pick, although it is a good pick for anyone that Belichick thinks can start in 2010. My personal suspicion is that Laurinitis is a more likely pick than Sintim. However, I would not be surpised to see no LB chosen at 23.
3) I did think that there was considerable support for Sintim. He did get more support on the LB thread than anyone not named Curry or Maualuga.
4) As was the case for the then injured Poslusny, there is a range of opinion on this board with regard to Laurinitis. My perception is that posters here think less of him than the posted lists, perhaps not.

This strikes me as an odd windmill you're tilting against. I've generally found the opposite, that most here tend to be very skeptical about the Pats' ability to find any ILBs close to starter-ready outside of the very elite prospects (Willis, Mayo, Curry).

Laurinaitis has been a controversial prospect here for the past 2 years. Some argue for him based largely on his intangibles, which always makes me nervous with college ILBs. Others look at the style he succeeded with in college being far removed from what's required of a Pats ILB and doubt he'd be as effective working through trash and engaging linemen. Still others take a middle path, arguing that his size and athleticism project well to those skills, even if he hasn't been asked to showcase them to this point. Reasonable people can disagree.

 

[patchick]

1) I agree there is no ILB that we have any chance of getting that is Top 10 material.
2) We are all stretching to find a LB that we want at 23, because we think that this is a good year for linebackers, and we could use a linebacker. I'm not sure that LB is the best Round 1 pick, although it is a good pick for anyone that Belichick thinks can start in 2010. My personal suspicion is that Laurinitis is a more likely pick than Sintim. However, I would not be surpised to see no LB chosen at 23.
3) I did think that there was considerable support for Sintim. He did get more support on the LB thread than anyone not named Curry or Maualuga.
4) As was the case for the then injured Poslusny, there is a range of opinion on this board with regard to Laurinitis. My perception is that posters here think less of him than the posted lists, perhaps not.

Fair enough, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I bolded a statement that particularly interests me. This seems to be a common pattern in recent years, that there are 1 or 2 LB prospects most of us love in the top dozen picks, then it's hard to find any more worthy of the 1st round at all. (David Harris was one on the borderline.) It's early yet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a different position at 23 either.

 

[mayoclinic]

Fair enough, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I bolded a statement that particularly interests me. This seems to be a common pattern in recent years, that there are 1 or 2 LB prospects most of us love in the top dozen picks, then it's hard to find any more worthy of the 1st round at all. (David Harris was one on the borderline.) It's early yet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a different position at 23 either.

I don't see a LB that I want at 23, unless Aaron Maybin someone makes a case that he can be an effective 3-4 OLB, which I think is a bit risky and unlikely. Curry and Brown will go top 15. Maualuga is a 2-down SILB with limited instincts. Laurinaitis doesn't fit our system. I don't see Larry English, Clint Sintim or Clay Matthews being good values at 23. I don't think Michael Johnson is a good conversion prospect. And I don't like Brian Cushing at all.

 

[patchick]

I don't see a LB that I want at 23, unless Aaron Maybin someone makes a case that he can be an effective 3-4 OLB, which I think is a bit risky and unlikely. Curry and Brown will go top 15. Maualuga is a 2-down SILB with limited instincts. Laurinaitis doesn't fit our system. I don't see Larry English, Clint Sintim or Clay Matthews being good values at 23. I don't think Michael Johnson is a good conversion prospect. And I don't like Brian Cushing at all.

It's early yet, but I'm starting to feel that tractor beam that pulls me toward a particular draft scenario...in this case, Barwin with the SD 2nd. I know he's raw, but he has a good combination of length, heft, agility, explosiveness and attitude for the job, and everybody else outside of the top 15 seems to lack something on that list. Of course, the Combine could end up changing Barwin's slotting in a big way.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It's early yet, but I'm starting to feel that tractor beam that pulls me toward a particular draft scenario...in this case, Barwin with the SD 2nd. I know he's raw, but he has a good combination of length, heft, agility, explosiveness and attitude for the job, and everybody else outside of the top 15 seems to lack something on that list. Of course, the Combine could end up changing Barwin's slotting in a big way.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's early yet, but I'm starting to feel that tractor beam that pulls me toward a particular draft scenario...in this case, Barwin with the SD 2nd. I know he's raw, but he has a good combination of length, heft, agility, explosiveness and attitude for the job, and everybody else outside of the top 15 seems to lack something on that list. Of course, the Combine could end up changing Barwin's slotting in a big way.

I've been getting pulled towards the LB at 47 much more than at 23 for a long time. Barwin, Sintim, Matthews and English would probably all be solid picks in that range, whereas I just don't see them being value at 23. One of them might slip to 58, but I doubt it. Barwin has been my binkie for a while, but as you say the combine may change things, and they all look like solid mid-2nd round values right now.

 

[BradyManny]

I've been getting pulled towards the LB at 47 much more than at 23 for a long time. Barwin, Sintim, Matthews and English would probably all be solid picks in that range, whereas I just don't see them being value at 23. One of them might slip to 58, but I doubt it. Barwin has been my binkie for a while, but as you say the combine may change things, and they all look like solid mid-2nd round values right now.

That's why I'm loving this 30-60 range, and heck might even want to get out of 23 (as I said in another thread). There is redundancy at both CB and LB in terms of guys who fit the Pats profile. Something might change at the combine, but none of these guys are drastically ahead of the others in my mind, and I'd be happy w any number of them.

 

[Richter]

That's why I'm loving this 30-60 range, and heck might even want to get out of 23 (as I said in another thread). There is redundancy at both CB and LB in terms of guys who fit the Pats profile. Something might change at the combine, but none of these guys are drastically ahead of the others in my mind, and I'd be happy w any number of them.

This is very true, especially at the CB spot. While I'm a big Vontae Davis fan and think he's the best "shutdown" type corner in this draft, is he so far ahead that a guy like Darius Butler, Sean Smith or Coye Francies, or even a guy that might go later than the second round like Mike Mickens, that you'd try to move a few spots for him? Probably not. If the Pats trade Cassel and get a high pick, I'd rather them pursue an impact linebacker or offensive tackle there, move the #23 for the best value and pick up a couple of guys like Butler and Barwin in the second. The talent at some of these positions is exceptionally deep, but there are a few shallow spots, most notably OT. In my mind, there's 2 franchise type guys, 2 guys a tier below them and 2 value guys, and the rest is a crap shoot, whereas there are probably twice that many guys at the CB and LB positions.

 

[mayoclinic]

That's why I'm loving this 30-60 range, and heck might even want to get out of 23 (as I said in another thread). There is redundancy at both CB and LB in terms of guys who fit the Pats profile. Something might change at the combine, but none of these guys are drastically ahead of the others in my mind, and I'd be happy w any number of them.

I'd agree with you right now that there isn't anyone who stands out in the 20-30 range. But of course, someone may conceivably drop, like Wilfork did in 2004. Alternatively, I could easily envision a small trade down. For example, a team like the Giants that has 2 second round picks. If Brandon Jacobs leaves in FA and someone like Chris Wells falls to 23, I could see the Giants moving up from 29, possibly with one of their 2nd round picks (or an exchange of picks if necessary to make the point values work out). But a lot may happen between now and the draft to clarify some of the late 1st round values.

 

[BradyManny]

This is very true, especially at the CB spot. While I'm a big Vontae Davis fan and think he's the best "shutdown" type corner in this draft, is he so far ahead that a guy like Darius Butler, Sean Smith or Coye Francies, or even a guy that might go later than the second round like Mike Mickens, that you'd try to move a few spots for him? Probably not. If the Pats trade Cassel and get a high pick, I'd rather them pursue an impact linebacker or offensive tackle there, move the #23 for the best value and pick up a couple of guys like Butler and Barwin in the second. The talent at some of these positions is exceptionally deep, but there are a few shallow spots, most notably OT. In my mind, there's 2 franchise type guys, 2 guys a tier below them and 2 value guys, and the rest is a crap shoot, whereas there are probably twice that many guys at the CB and LB positions.

Francies is a guy who I don't know from Adam, but like the sound of. I hope he doesn't rise too much - I have a feeling he will, but he sounds like a good Pats fit.

I agree w your assessment of the positions. But I would say while OT might not have depth, there is some at OG/C.

 

[BradyManny]

I'd agree with you right now that there isn't anyone who stands out in the 20-30 range. But of course, someone may conceivably drop, like Wilfork did in 2004.

Good point. Thats why we're in a good spot at 23 to move up if someone drops, or move down and out if someone doesn't.