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James Baker's Panel Rules out Victory in Iraq..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Oct 13, 2006.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another drive by Neo Con saying that the War in Iraq is going nowhere, time to change the focus and direction of this effort. Wonder if GWB will listen to Daddy's top aide, or if he will just sweep this report under the rug. Or if Baker will be dismissed as just another disgruntled beltway loon.

    http://www.nysun.com/article/41371?page_no=1

    By ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    October 12, 2006
    WASHINGTON — A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.

    Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by a secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, "Stability First" and "Redeploy and Contain," both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.

    More telling, however, is the ruling out of two options last month. One advocated minor fixes to the current war plan but kept intact the long-term vision of democracy in Iraq with regular elections. The second proposed that coalition forces focus their attacks only on Al Qaeda and not the wider insurgency.

    Instead, the commission is headed toward presenting President Bush with two clear policy choices that contradict his rhetoric of establishing democracy in Iraq. The more palatable of the two choices for the White House, "Stability First," argues that the military should focus on stabilizing Baghdad while the American Embassy should work toward political accommodation with insurgents. The goal of nurturing a democracy in Iraq is dropped.

    The option papers, which sources inside the commission have stressed are still being amended and revised as the panel wraps up its work, give a clearer picture of what Mr. Baker meant in recent interviews when he called for a course adjustment
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    J Baker may be many things a 'Neo Con' isn't one of them.
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In terms of foreign policy J Baker has always been in favor of maintianing the status quo, sorta like Kissenger. Guys like Wolfwitz, are neo cons.
     
  4. Sir Otilc

    Sir Otilc On the Roster

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    More ignorant hatred. Do you know anything about the electoral college, or the Florida Supreme Court overstepping their authority or any of the Democrat bullshoot that went on in Florida in 2000?

    No, you don't, because it doesn't fit your "Bush sucks" template of hatred.
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What do you think about what Baker did here? Or are you just content at slinging mud against NEM??
     
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well the panel appears to be 'bipartisan' so i suspect that one or more of the dems are leaking thier spin before the election. There are no actual quotes from the report or any facts used to support the supposed conclusion.
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW if you check the record Baker was against taking out Saddam during GWI, to appease the Saudi's and was against GWII.
     
  8. Sir Otilc

    Sir Otilc On the Roster

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    Unless Baker is in a position to dictate policy, his opinion is just as valid as any other opinion.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How does this become a credibility argument about Baker? A confident of George senior and a man who has access to GWB was asked to head a panel.. somehow instead of looking at what he did it becomes an assassination against the author. I think the message needs to be looked at, instead of the messenger.

    If he is so distrusted why was he asked to head this panel?? If the outcome was so predictable, why did GWB take this risk?? Is he that stupid?
     
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who assasinated Baker, I just pointed out 2 things. He is on the record as being an opponent of regieme change in Iraq, and that this leak is spin from an unidentified source on the panel, not Baker as the title to this thread indicates, and that the spin is designed to hurt administration before the election.

    Drawing conclusions on what a report says based on a leak without access to the complete document is pointless.
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, if you read the entire article there are a couple of lines that stick out.

    #1

    The document, read over the telephone to the Sun, says

    #2

    "If we are able to promote representative, representative government, not necessarily democracy, in a number of nations in the Middle East and bring more freedom to the people of that part of the world, it will have been a success," he said.

    That distinction is crucial, according to one member of the expert working groups. "Baker wants to believe that Sunni dictators in Sunni majority states are representative," the group member, who requested anonymity, said.


    #3

    Because of the politically explosive topic of the Baker commission, the panel has agreed not to release its findings until after the November 7 elections. The commission, formally known as the Iraq Study Group, was created by Congress in legislation sponsored by Rep. Frank Wolf, a Republican of Virginia and close confidant of Mr. Bush's. Mr. Baker has said he will likely present the panel's findings in December.


    These stick out to me for a couple of reasons. Basically the 10 member panel, which is headed by Baker and a Dem, Lee Hamilton, had a previous agreement not to report the findings until after the election. So why is it that favorable leftist news is being reported, and READ to the Sun over the phone? Crap like this is what bugs me about today's politics. Both sides have ZERO credibility.

    The part about "representative" government may be telling. There was once talk of Baker taking over for Rummy were he to resign or be fired. Could this be a clash of ideological beliefs? I just find it odd that victory is supposedly impossible. Sounds kinda defeatist to me.
     
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The selective leak scam is the same things the lefties did last month with the NIE, until the complete document is released who cares what one side leaks?
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So we go from criticizing the messenger to criticizing the method about how it is leaked... how about some comments about the message. This is what happens over and over again on this forum, I am as guilty as I labeled Baker.. but bottom line is that the Panel headed by James Baker rules out victory in Iraq.

    Does this statement, A Panel headed by James Baker rules out victory in Iraq, have any bearing on what is being said in the responses here??
     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What I am saying is that reaching conclusion on selectivly leaked parts of a document is menaingless. you need access to the entire document to comment on the findings.

    What are the complete findings? How are they supported by facts? How do they reach their conclusions?

    None of these can be evaluated from the material in the article?

    Is this so hard for you to understand?
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    How can I comment when I have no idea what the report says. If his position is that we can't win, then I have my doubts about his report. Of course, what is a win to him? What is it to anyone? Is leaving Iraq on its feet and able to control itself a win, or is zero violence a win? Why does he think a win is not attainable? I need more info.
     
  16. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Baker is lying scum. In that regard, he is little different from every other very senior, very experienced diplomat. So we shouldn't necessarily hold it against him when evaluating his policy views.
     
  17. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What I find telling is that the report is 100% complete (spell checked and everything) yet Baker doesn't wanna release it 'till after the election. I wonder why?
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why not ask L Hamilton the dem since he is the co chair?
     

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