Jackson and Branch

[PromisedLand]

I think everyone would agree that Jackson is a good talent, and from what information is available to the laymen, has all the potential to make his mark in the league.

But to hope and dream that he comes out with a banner year is fairly whimsical. Sure, anything can happen with any player; but odds are against him in his rookie year. Even if he did tear it up, it would be nice to have some consistent veteran play in the mix. Assuming Branch held out to 10 as rumored.

I read Eddie Kennison would like to see a little more money on his remaining 2 years with KC. After having paid Law a little, still having to satisfy Gonzalez with some more dough, KC may come up short for Kennison. Maybe we could convince Hermie that Beisel is still a diamond in the rough.

Question for you, Mr. Hope and Dream: what was the average number of catches and yards receiving for all the wide receivers the Patriots have drafted on day 1 of the draft going back to 1996, in their rookie year? Go look up the answer and then come back and tell me the odds are against him making a significant contribution. (*)

Keep in mind that most draftniks had Jackson rated as the best receiver in this draft.

(*) Hint: the answer is in one of my recent posts.

 

[BelichickFan]

As to your original point, you have to look at it from Deion's eyes. He knows whenever he comes back he has a starting job. He's not viewing Jackson as a legitimate threat to his job security. Maybe he should, but I don't think he is.

You are right, his starting job isn't at stake. How the league sees him, though, if Givens does mediocre and the Patriots pass fine without Branch is another issue. Also, he's literally giving away $1M if he sits out until Week 10 as it won't change his offseason situation.

 

[PromisedLand]

As to your original point, you have to look at it from Deion's eyes. He knows whenever he comes back he has a starting job. He's not viewing Jackson as a legitimate threat to his job security. Maybe he should, but I don't think he is.

So whether or not Jackson lights it up in pre-season or just plays fairly well, I don't know that it has a lot of stroke with Deion at this point. If there was a threat that he could actually lose his starting job which would cost him big bucks when he bolts for FA next March, then absolutely Jackson having a big camp might sway him.

I see your point, but I don't think that Deion has to fear losing his job. I think right now he probably thinks he has the team over a barrel because they are desparate for wideout help, and what I'm saying is that if Jackson starts contributing soon, he will see that we're not really that desparate, especially given the potent quality we have at QB, RB, and TE.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Question for you, Mr. Hope and Dream: what was the average number of catches and yards receiving for all the wide receivers the Patriots have drafted on day 1 of the draft going back to 1996, in their rookie year? Go look up the answer and then come back and tell me the odds are against him making a significant contribution. (*)

Keep in mind that most draftniks had Jackson rated as the best receiver in this draft.

(*) Hint: the answer is in one of my recent posts.

Hahah, you're a sensitive fella. Or maybe insecure.

Regardless, it was not meant as some personal affront to your speculation, just the fact that rookie WR's often take a little bit to catch on. Regardless of what others may have done at any given time with any given team.

Chill.

 

[PromisedLand]

Hahah, you're a sensitive fella. Or maybe insecure.

Regardless, it was not meant as some personal affront to your speculation, just the fact that rookie WR's often take a little bit to catch on. Regardless of what others may have done at any given time with any given team.

Chill.

Not insecure, not overly sensitive, just put some serious thought into my posts and would prefer to converse with people who do the same.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Not insecure, not overly sensitive, just put some serious thought into my posts and would prefer to converse with people who do the same.

Fair enough.

I seriously think it is against the odds that Jackson will outperform expectations. I seriously think if he did it would have little impact in the Branch scenario as far as his personal motivations and determinations, whatever those may be.

I seriously think Branchs agent (as well as various pundits through time) has him convinced that his numbers are a product of the system, and in a different situation he would be a top 5-10 in the league. And as result of that it will make little difference to him what Jackson does.

It isn't like his agent is going to tell him "Hey Deion, I know I advised you to hold tight baby and we would get the money, but I was a moron and your stock has rapidly depleted so you need to get your ass in there and play.....please don't fire my stupid *****".

He is going to continue to keep him under the belief (assumingly) that gold still waits at the end of the rainbow, even if Jackson is/was rookie of the year.

 

[spacecrime]

Hahah, you're a sensitive fella. Or maybe insecure.

Or maybe he had good data that contradicted your claim

Regardless, it was not meant as some personal affront to your speculation, just the fact that rookie WR's often take a little bit to catch on. Regardless of what others may have done at any given time with any given team.

So if history shows that Pats Day 1 pick rookie wide receivers usually contribute then it is a fact they don't? Missing the logic here......

I haven't seen the numbers so I don't know, but I don't know why the consensus best WR in the draft wouldn't contribute right away.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Or maybe he had good data that contradicted your claim

What claim? That rookie wideouts usually need a year or two to get up to speed? Granted I have not done the research on every rookie stats ever drafted in the history of the NFL, but common rule is real numbers don't manifest until year 2-3.

So if history shows that Pats Day 1 pick rookie wide receivers usually contribute then it is a fact they don't? Missing the logic here......

I haven't seen the numbers so I don't know, but I don't know why the consensus best WR in the draft wouldn't contribute right away.

Well, he was referring to those since '96 actually. Which are a very limited number of players. Glenn and Branch. But nobody was pointing out as FACT that day one receivers produce or don't produce either way.

And "contributing" is a relative term.

 

[spacecrime]

Granted I have not done the research on every rookie stats ever drafted in the history of the NFL

or any reasearch on any top WR pick

 

[Seymour93]

That's a little unfair. Wide receivers pull hammies all the time - that doesn't mean he's injury prone. TO has also been on a bike all preseason - do you think he is not going to contribute to the Boys this year? Or for a more apropros example, you might remember Terry "Teary" Glenn had a hammy his first preseason too. (You do remember Tuna responding to a reporter's question about his status, "She's doing fine"?) All Glenn did that year was break the NFL rookie record for receptions with 90 for 1132 yards.

TO can slack off in the hot July/August heat because he is a proven all-pro when the real season begins. Jackson has yet to earn his stripes in this league, so relying on him to pull a Glenn-esque rookie season, without having Branch's production, is foolish. The list for highly drafted WR's who've panned in the NFL is never ending. Jackson is just as likely to turn out as a David Terrell than he is to a Terry Glenn.

 

[Mr.0bese]

The key to bringing Branch back is BB. One post states “Our best chance to grab another Lombardi is NOW. There is no "long-term" strategy. We should give Brady the best WRs NOW to take opportunity of having the best QB if NFL history.†The thing that makes this team great is that it is always rebuilding. When I watched the first preseason game I saw a young Pats team that will make the playoffs for years to come as compared to an old squad that’s trying to hang on to past glory and get it done one more year. The front office goal is not to win the Super Bowl every year but to become a dominant force year in and year out. To do this we have to purge older players before their performance starts to decline and step on the throat of younger stars that my want to much for their services. What’s happening now IMHO, is that BB is sending a clear message to the team that this is not the way NE will conduct business. Branch is just the poor guy that has misread the waters and is being made an example of. I think Seymour was an exception to this rule, I don’t think we over paid him but his actions did set a poor precedent that makes the Branch situation harder.

 

[DarrylS]

What’s happening now IMHO, is that BB is sending a clear message to the team that this is not the way NE will conduct business. Branch is just the poor guy that has misread the waters and is being made an example of. I think Seymour was an exception to this rule, I don’t think we over paid him but his actions did set a poor precedent that makes the Branch situation harder.

If this is what is going on, and we will never know, Branch is not understanding who he is and his place on this team. If he views his value to this team equal with that of Seymour, he is mistaken... Seymour is one of the top 5 defensive lineman in the league(I could argue for #1) while Branch is probably about the 15th WR in the league. His value is his familiarity with this system and ability to work with #12, he has a lot of talent, but is not the best.

A lot of respect has been lost for him( I know he is a high character guy etc), because of his stance, honor your contract and get a better agent who will not negotiate in the press. The Pats have never liked his agent's method and probably never will, not sure when this stalemate will end.

 

[Pats726]

Branch thinks he has the edge because of the poor WR play...This is the window needed for him to come back...because the Patriots will find a solution some how, some way...trade or otherwise. Once they move on, that window is shut and for many practical purposes, he is history. I think the Patriots are playing a waiting game and at some point in the next few weeks will pull the trigger and move on. They won't be held hostage and will get Brady a solid WR..whether that be DB if he comes to his senses or another. The problem is that Branch is waiting and he may run out of time..and that will be too late for him.