It's Time Time Cut Both Kline and Dobson

[goheels22002]

Decent chance Lucien beats out Mitchell

That's a very interesting comment. This training camp will be a very tough receiver competition. Amendola and Hogan have their hands full with the rookies that just showed up. This camp will be as much fun as the year Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce showed up. All three had skills. Thompkins seemed to get on the same page as Brady and then faded.

Lucien and ASU his running mate, DJ Foster, bring great skill sets to camp as rookies. Lucien is a good receiver who will challenge Amendola for a spot. Foster is a running back who converted to wideout and is going to give White a run for his money and could be a great depth pickup for Lewis. And don't forget, James White showed us a lot last season after Blount and Lewis went down.

Mitchell is a solid X receiver who reminds me of David Givens - great hands, tough over the middle, breaks tackles, and able to make the tough catch on the outside. His video against SEC defensive backs, many of whom got drafted or signed, gives me greater confidence than some of these kids from mid-majors who didn't face elite speed and tackling. I think Mitchell makes the team and takes over for JoJo Lafell, if he can get on the same page with the QBs.

My new binkie is 6'5" 225 lb De'Runnya Wilson WR/TE out of Mississippi State - a behemoth X receiver who caught 60 passes in the SEC and is really a basketball player turned receiver. Great hands, no speed whatsoever. The Ravens should have signed him to play with Jump Ball Joe Flacco.

 

[mgteich]

Kline played well for Scar. I wouldn't cut him. Marcus Cannon, on the other hand.

I believe that Cannon was a favorite of Scar's. He certainly approved his large contract as the swing tackle, and starter whenever Vollmer was down.

Maybe Scar will accept Waddle or Thuney as the swing OT, or not.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Because he's not very good.

Really? as a #4 or #5 option WR?

 

[mgteich]

Really? as a #4 or #5 option WR?

I agree with you that Martin is competitive with Washington for the 5th WR spot, if there is one, or the 4th if Amendola is gone.

LOCKS: Edelman, Hogan, Mitchell

 

[mgteich]

I don't even think that Dobson would make the Practice Squad, if he were even eligible.

Edelman
Hogan
Mitchell
Amendola
Martin
Washington
Lucien
Dobson
Harper
Carter

 

[reflexblue]

Right now he is primary backup tackle

Well as we have seen this means TB is in serious trouble.

 

[meatface]

Well as we have seen this means TB is in serious trouble.

it would be worse if they cut cannon

 

[primetime]

Really? as a #4 or #5 option WR?

He's a useful player, but he's certainly replaceable. If you think Mitchell can replicate his production as an intermediate-level receiver and play on special teams and also has the possibility to have a much higher ceiling than Martin, it doesn't make much sense to keep Martin.

Nate Washington, on the other hand, fills a different niche than every other player on the roster (with the possible exception of Dobson) as a deep ball receiver, so absent a total Joey Galloway-like collapse it will be hard to keep Washington off the team.

 

[jefmblrd]

The team is going to have to cut some players to make room for the recent acquisitions, but I don't see them cutting either Kline or Dobson at this point.

While I always tend to overvalue some of the draft picks and UDFAs, I think there will be some serious competition to make or stay on this roster especially at WR, OL, CB and STs. Can't wait to see how it all takes shape.

 

[Ross12]

Lucien is really intriguing to me. He doesn't do any one thing really well besides great hands, but he is average or above average in almost all categories. He's not going to jump off the screen at you, but he seems like he can just be a really really solid all-around receiver.

I also like the Mitchell-to-LaFell comparison. Mitchell is a little smaller but doesn't seem any less tough. I hope to god his hands are better than LaFell's were last year. They seem to be on tape, but you never know - Dobson was touted as having good hands, but he couldn't catch a cold in Foxboro.

 

[DaBruinz]

We have 4 G, Kline is the only starter who has had any success with this team. Fleming looks shaky. Stork looks medically shaky. Lots of injuries last year and some haven't healed. Id expect a T to get cut before a G.

Where are you getting that some of the injuries haven't healed??

 

[DaBruinz]

My Early Patriots roster 1.0 without the udfa:

54 Players:

Players highlighted in bold are free agents next year

• QB - 3 Brady, Garoppolo, Brissett
• RB - 4 Brown, James White, Lewis, Blount - With an extra QB they will only carry 4 backs, so Bolden as only a STer guy and with $1,122,500 cap savings is the man to go. Other cuts: Devlin, Gaffney, Iosefa.
• C - 1 Stork - Cuts: Andrews, Shaquille Mason.
• G - 4 Karras, Cooper, Mason, Jackson; Cuts: Kline, Barker. So they need a guy like Karras ( 4th best OG in pass protection). Jackson gets the nod because his cheaper. Kline and Cooper will fight. I read that Cooper can play C, so thats why he gets the nod over Kline.
• OT - 4 Vollmer, Solder, Thuney, Waddle - Cuts: Cannon, Milton. They will carry 4 T because Thuney is a rookie.
• WR - 5 Mitchell, Edelman, Hogan, Washington, Martin Cuts: Amendola , Lucien, Carter, Harper. Why Amendola? Because of his cap number. 2. Because Cyrus is a great returner. 3. Because of Hogan. He is kind of redundant.
• TE - 3 Rob Gronkowski, Bennett, Harbor. Cuts: Williams, Derby.
• DE - 5 Ninkovich, Long, Flowers, Sheard, Grissom. Cuts: Kearse.
• DT - 4 Knighton, Valentine, Branch, Malcom Brown. Cuts: Kuhn, Vellano.
• LB - 5 Collins, Hightower, Shea, Freeny, Kamu. Cuts:Bostic, Snyder, Vaughters, Rufus Johnson, Elandom. They will keep their 250+ guys, plus Kamu and to play the LB/S role. For now i dont believe they switch to a 3-4 defense. They dont have the personnel.
• CB - 5 Ryan, Butler, Cyrus Jones, Coleman, Roberts. Cuts: Melvin, Vereen.
• S - 4 McCourty,Harmon, Chung, Richards Cut: Biggers, Cedric.
• ST - 3 Slater, Ebner, King( Great STer and cheaper than Bolden)
• P - 1 Allen
• K - 1 Gostkowski
• LS - 1 Cardona. Cut: Yount

19 FA:

Brown, Blount, Freeny, Washington are easily replaceable ...
King, Ninko and Coleman, Vollmer should be cheap
Bennett is a one year rental imo.
Cooper, Long are experiments ???
Knighton and Branch if they are switching to a 3-4 defense how many DT they need? I think they can let them go and grab another one via draft.
Butler, Collins and HT will stay...
Sheard depends if he want 7-8m or 10+ a year...
Harmon and Ryan will be too expensive for us... Vereen situtation ...

A few of issues..
1) Kearse is not a 4-3 DE. He's a 4-3 DT.
2) Kamu isn't a LB for the Pats.. He's a safety. Just like Chung.
3) The Pats aren't cutting Dave Andrews and Shaq Mason. Not after they played so well last year. Mason was better than Jackson. Also, no way the Pats only carry 1 center even with Thuney or Cooper potentially being able to play there.
4) You only have 53 players listed (24 offense, 23 defense, 6 ST). IF Brady suspension is upheld (still not a guarantee since he's appealing the ruling), then the Patriots get his spot for someone else for the first 4 weeks.
5) I don't know which mediot started this rumor of the 3-4, but the Pats just don't have the LBers for it.
6) Coleman and Roberts are not guaranteed anything. And don't sleep on the 3 UDFA CBs the Patriots are brining in..
7) Cooper has played 1 game at center and that was in college. I don't know if he's taken any practice snaps at center as a pro.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

A few of issues..
1) Kearse is not a 4-3 DE. He's a 4-3 DT.
2) Kamu isn't a LB for the Pats.. He's a safety. Just like Chung.
3) The Pats aren't cutting Dave Andrews and Shaq Mason. Not after they played so well last year. Mason was better than Jackson. Also, no way the Pats only carry 1 center even with Thuney or Cooper potentially being able to play there.
4) You only have 53 players listed (24 offense, 23 defense, 6 ST). IF Brady suspension is upheld (still not a guarantee since he's appealing the ruling), then the Patriots get his spot for someone else for the first 4 weeks.
5) I don't know which mediot started this rumor of the 3-4, but the Pats just don't have the LBers for it.
6) Coleman and Roberts are not guaranteed anything. And don't sleep on the 3 UDFA CBs the Patriots are brining in..
7) Cooper has played 1 game at center and that was in college. I don't know if he's taken any practice snaps at center as a pro.

1) Listed as a DE. But he wont make the team imo.
2) BB said that he is a LB/S. He will be a ST guy so ..
3) Andrews is ok, stork is way better. How many OL they will carry, 9? Stork was out for 8 weeks last year(1/2season), Andrews was the only C ...
4) Agree
5) Agree but that can change next year
6) Coleman was really good imo.

 

[Canuck]

Let's look at this full complement of TWELVE players.

C: Solder, Andrews
OT: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Thuney, Waddle, Fleming
OG: Cooper, Mason, Jackson, Kline

Sorry, just a misunderstanding on what I meant by complement. I didn't mean everybody that we have signed, just the number we carry on the 53 man roster.

 

[ashley]

If we have Kline and Cannon starting at the same time, Tom is in serious trouble!!!!

As far as Dobson goes, it's going to be an uphill battle for him to win a job....a lot of depth now at the receiver position.

 

[jah]

1) Listed as a DE. But he wont make the team imo.
2) BB said that he is a LB/S. He will be a ST guy so ..
3) Andrews is ok, stork is way better. How many OL they will carry, 9? Stork was out for 8 weeks last year(1/2season), Andrews was the only C ...
4) Agree
5) Agree but that can change next year
6) Coleman was really good imo.

Listed as a DE means nothing for Kearse. He's listed as a DE because he was a DE on his last team, which ran a 3-4, and the intern in charge of the online Patriots roster doesn't know anything about Frank Kearse because he's Frank Kearse. I will eat a pair of my own shorts on camera if Kearse lines up at 4-3 DE for us.

For the same reason, Rufus Johnson is not a linebacker despite what the roster claims.

 

[DaBruinz]

1) Listed as a DE. But he wont make the team imo.
2) BB said that he is a LB/S. He will be a ST guy so ..
3) Andrews is ok, stork is way better. How many OL they will carry, 9? Stork was out for 8 weeks last year(1/2season), Andrews was the only C ...
4) Agree
5) Agree but that can change next year
6) Coleman was really good imo.

2) He's still in the mold of Chung.
3) Andrews was better than you give him credit for. As I mentioned in MG's other thread, the Pats have normally carried 10 OL. Ending the season with 9 or 8 is the exception. BTW, you even mentioned Mason as a C in your initial review. Furthermore, Kline took snaps at center in pre-season and practices.
5) How can it "change next year" when we're talking about the upcoming season and not 2 seasons from now??
6) Coleman was adequate as the "STAR". The Patriots went out and took a CB with their 1st pick and signed 3 more to UDFA contracts for a reason. And it wasn't because they were satisfied with their CB depth.. Behind Butler and Ryan..

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

2) He's still in the mold of Chung.
3) Andrews was better than you give him credit for. As I mentioned in MG's other thread, the Pats have normally carried 10 OL. Ending the season with 9 or 8 is the exception. BTW, you even mentioned Mason as a C in your initial review. Furthermore, Kline took snaps at center in pre-season and practices.
5) How can it "change next year" when we're talking about the upcoming season and not 2 seasons from now??
6) Coleman was adequate as the "STAR". The Patriots went out and took a CB with their 1st pick and signed 3 more to UDFA contracts for a reason. And it wasn't because they were satisfied with their CB depth.. Behind Butler and Ryan..

5) I agree with you, Mason is safe. My mistake. But they wont carry 10 OL IMO. With 3 QB plus 6 or 7 guys that only play in ST they will need to be creative the whole year.

6)They can not switch the whole defense in one year. The reason they took a CB is beacuse they lack depth there and Ryan and Butler are FA in 2017. Next year they can select 2 LB with the first two picks with a couple of FA and voilà they can switch for a 3-4 defense.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I would want to see both Kline and Dobson compete in camp before cutting them now.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Washington and Dobson are the only downfield receivers on the roster. One of them will make it, and it's very likely to be Washington. Martin is just a guy, he's no lock, and his skillset as a receiver seems redundant with Mitchell added. My guess for the receivers is Edelman, Hogan, Amendola, Washington, Mitchell. In theory, they could keep a 6th receiver like Martin or Lucien if they only keep 2 tight ends, for instance.

Matthew Slater is a lock as the 6th WR