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It's really starting to get to me...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by fleabassist1, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Affirmative action... reverse racism at it's best.

    One of my close friends, who happen's to be black, was accepted into WVU for being black because they want a more racially balanced school.

    He is also receiving help from the school because he is black - not because he may or may not be poor, or not because he struggles with school - he is actually a really good student, and his family is VERY well off. He told me that he is being offered extra help and money which is not offered to white students - simply because of their skin. I wonder how long my skin color is going to hinder me from getting an education moreso then others?
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ah, if only you were black, think of all the opportunities you would have. Don't let your envy get the better of you.
  3. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    I would have an instant education ... = more oppertunities.
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    fleabassist, in all honesty, our country is not colorblind. Institutional racism is still very common. Cronyism and nepotism almost always benefit white people more than black people, because white people are more often in positions of power. The low budget affirmative action is not the best solution to that problem. The best solution would be to ensure that all schools offer high quality education, that poor kids have equal access to tutors and computers, the poor kids can get daycare, and that schools and corporations spend the money necessary to go out, find, and recruit qualified minorities. But, that's too expensive. So, what's left? Low budget affirmative action, which is to just give some favoritism to blacks based in part of their skin color. It's a rotten solution to a big problem, but it's better than nothing.
  5. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    I totally agree to that 100%. I understand what AA is for, I just don't agree with it at all. All of this preaching for social equality - why not spend the money to make everyone equal.

    Sooner then later we will all be the same color anyways.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. I would support tax increases (or redirection) to create a more equal society. The right-wing has a history of cutting programs until they're ineffective and then saying, "See, the program doesn't work." That's what they did with AA.

    Yeah, but that's probably a few millennium away.
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Iread an article of a uni-race world and it broke down the mathematics of how long it might take. The number of generations was incredibly small - something like 12 or 13 which would make the total time 240 or 260 years.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's pretty amazing. But, I suppose it's plausible. I have two great nephews who are half black and all of them (6 in total) are half Christian/half Jewish (though none are religious). A couple more generations, and it seems pretty likely the mix will get even greater.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    This kind of thing perpetuates racism. It's the kind of thing that will push borderline racists to the racist side of the fence. The government can't change what people think, however hard it tries. Companies can hire a few minorities for show if they want then hire whoever they want. As Cosby said, minorities would be better served by getting their families and commumities to value education more than waiting for the next handout and complaining about it.
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know many Blacks in your home town Patters that consider Affirmative Action insulting and degrading, they see it as the White Do-Gooder sending them the message that they can't accomplish the job on their own, they are only there because of the color of their skin.

    Can you imagine what it must feel like to walk onto a new job on monday morning knowing the only reason you got this job was because of the color of your skin and knowing that all those people that you are now working with know it too. That is a disgusting thing to do to another human being, the Liberal do-gooding people Black and White should hang their heads in shame.

    If a company can't find a qualified Minority to do "the job" they should keep looking until they do because they are out there, the Minority's have had over Forty Years to get it together there is a whole new generation of them since the Civil Rights Act passed.

    There are just as many whites that "don't qualify" and they get rejected right along with the "unqualified black".

    Affirmative Action is now "INSULTING AND DEGRADING" to Balck People all it does is tell the Black Person "You Can't Make It On Your Own"

    I would never allow my child to go through that, it would make me cry.
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess it depends on your frame of reference. My Father in Law retired in the early 70's, he was an engineer. HE went to Liberia to work at a hospital out in the bush run by Christian missionaries. They also ran a medical school where they trained doctors and nurses, HE was in charge of the electrical system (they generated their own) the motor pool and the phone system.

    During his time there he has a couple of kids working for his who he felt were good kids who deserved a chance to go to college (the rest of the guys were adults). When he returned to America he brought them over and paid for them to go to college.

    They were stunned when they met black people in America. They couldn't believe how much energy they spent complaining about racism and discrimination rather than focusing on the opportunities they had.

    You see Since they grew up in Africa, where they as black people they didn't feel like a minority because of their skin color (problems due to tribal affiliation were another matter altogether). They didn't feel the widespread discrimination perceived by American black people. They felt the principal problem of American Black people was that they were focused on the wrong things and needed to put more work into their schooling.

    BTW they are both American citizens now and doing quite well.


    Many times perception is reality.
  12. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    Oh, those lucky Black people get all the lucky breaks.

    If only I wasnt white, i might have had a chance in America:rolleyes:


    and those people in wheelchairs, why do they get all the best parking places?

    nothing is worse than being a healthy, white, male!

    *ok, ok, im not proud at my level of sarcasm this morning. the wife has put in her complaint and it is duly noted. Saturday morning with the kids, you know.....
    my apologies.
  13. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Oh no no no, dont get me started on handicap spaces. PEople in wheelchairs, people with broken legs - people who are handicaped sure, let them have that spot. Older people? Of course. I understand all of that, perfectly okay with me.

    Now, those fattys are a different story. I personally think we should make you park farther away due to weight. For instance, I could park in the area designated for 150-199 pound people, etc.

    :D Haha, I am kidding about that - but seriously, large people who MADE THEMSELVES THAT WAY do not deserve handicap spots. That is both taking the spot from the people that really do need it, and making their fat a handicap.
  14. Real World

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    I don't like Affirmative action as it is certifiable discrimination. However, I do support it's intentions, and would not abolish it in the near term. Eventually, when the playing field has levelled itself a bit more, it will serve no purpose. What I would like to see is AA reevealuated, so as to construct it in a form that better suits todays needs. If what Flea says is true, that simply being black gets you perks, then it's flawed. I think blacks, over the last 20+ years, have made some advances in society. There are more middle class, and upper class african americans than ever before. Granting those persons with aid is illogical, as it would both be better spent those who truly need it, and would serve to ease possible tensions from people like Flea, who see such wasted aid as being unfair since said recipients are his economic and social peers.
  15. Real World

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    don't misrepresent Flea's position on this. Flea was pecifically speaking of african americans who are not in need of financial aid or special perks. He was not tspeaking about poor people, or those who truly need such aid. If Paul Pierce's kid was applying for college, should he get financial aid or special privledges?
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't let Real World or PFIEL see your post. They believe that when one cites personal experience, it's an example of liberalism. And, to your point, I have no doubt that someone who never had any opportunity at all would find that in itself satisfying, and they probably never dreamed of fighting for equality.
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You get equality by showing that you are capable of doing a job - not by the government forcing someone to hire you. That goes for the small picture of an individual and the big picture of an entire race.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  18. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..............

    There is nothing wrong with expressing your personal experiences. It's when you try to base an entire argument on "the chinese guy I sat next to on the train".

    Get a clue.
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The point is of course that they took their equality for granted and didn't worry about any naysayers, they were too busy realizing their dreams.
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, Fraud World, I guess you got caught by your own nonsense. I agree with what you're saying, and I've never based anything I've claimed solely on my personal knowledge of people. Or, do you disagree with patsfan13 who in his post based his point solely on a personal experience. Let's see you wiggle your way out of this one. :ROFL:
  21. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They deserve enormous credit, especially given the cultural hurdles they had to overcome. I think there are many examples like that, but not everyone has their same inner strength. Perhaps their upbringing positioned them to succeed here? I certainly think we need to improve education and introduce civics and ethics in school to help people develop better values.
  22. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I point is, if Patsfans is basing the abolishon (spelling?) of Afirmative Action on the story of 2 Liberians experiences, then I would criticize his method as I've criticized yours. He's merely offering the perspective of those 2 Liberians to further discussion, and offer some insight. What you tend to do, like most other liberals I know, is say "this Chinese guy I know, and therefore it's like this in China", or "this black friend I know, therefore it's that way for ALL blacks". There is a significant difference bewtween the two.
  23. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your getting closer, their cultural assumptions were that they weren't minorities or at a disadvantage due to their color. They felt that American Blacks were limiting themselves, ie they had been brainwashed to believe they were at a disadvantage due to their color.

    From the POV of these native born Africans the problems of American Blacks were in their heads and didn't really exist.
  24. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is correct I am relating the opinions of these 2 people. Does that make it the universal truth? Well I have no way to know. I do find it interesting that since these folks had no expectations of being discriminated against, they didn't see and feel oppressed by racism that others with similar skin color but different expectations felt oppressed by.
  25. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know from personal experiences that why I was interested in the experiences of black people from Africa who didn't view themselves as minorities and disadvantaged, because of being brainwashed by libs (IMO of course).

    BTW what experience do you have of being black?
  26. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    About 7 or 8 years ago they had a similar report on 60 Minutes (one of those shows anyhow) about Jamaican blacks who emigrated to the US, versus their African American counterparts. The story line was why Jamaicans were so much more successful versus African Americans.
  27. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, they were awfully quick to stereotype American blacks and call them brainwashed. That's sort of messed up. I hope you stuck up for your American brethren. I certainly would have, and frankly would have been offended by their disrespectful comments.
  28. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What disrespect? This was based on their experiences and conversation with American black people. For their own part they were thrilled with the opportunities available to them in American and both are now American citizens.

    Your comments seem to indicate that it is disrespectful for them to have opinions that take them off the liberal plantation. When they came from Africa they didn't really know about liberal conservatives and racial politics. In Liberia politics are tribal, not racial or ideological. IIMO is is arrogant of you to dismiss their opinions since they don't agree with your stereotypes. After all they have more experience being black than you do.
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, in all honesty, patsfan13, I don't believe you. I don't believe that people from another country would call American blacks brainwashed and say they were limiting themselves because of their color. That would be rude. When you're visiting another country, you should respect that country for what it is. I've lived in several other countries, and I wouldn't dream of insulting a large segment of the population of those countries. And don't lie and accuse me of stereotyping.

    Don't lie and accuse me of stereotyping.

    My god, you just showed your true colors. I know more about being an American than two Liberians do.
  30. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Right Leg is 1/2 inch shorter than my left leg, I was always called "Rotten Leg", just the other day in the supermarket my wife called me "A Rotten Legged Bastard", that never bothered me, it is reality, my leg is rotten.

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