Its official, Jimmy Graham is franchised as a TE, not WR

[Kontradiction]

I don't understand what it is you are arguing with me about here.

Grahams argument is that he lined up more outside, and in the slot, then next to the linemen. the numbers back that up.

This doesn't have a god damned thing to do with blocking,

It has a lot to do with blocking. They moved him outside and into the slot more often because he can't block to save his life. That means that if he lines up next to the tackle, 9 times out of 10 he's going to have to either chip or block (at least momentarily) either the DE or the OLB (depending on whether or not the team they are playing is employing a 4-3, 3-4, or are in the nickel). If the guy can't block, he either has trouble getting a free release after chipping or is allowing the pass rusher to break through and get into Brees' face. Lining him up in the slot negates that, at least somewhat.

WR's block on running plays as well, its just down the field, or on screens. Good Blocker bad Blocker it doesn't matter, the argument is he lines up as a WR. The majority of time(which he does) and so he should be classified as a WR.

And the counter argument to that is lots of TE's in modern football or going back 10 years or so have lined up in the slot. They did so less than Graham because most of them have been better blockers, but they still did. That doesn't make them a WR just like it doesn't make Graham a WR.

 

[chasa]

So basically, what you are saying, is even if Tim Tebow was signed by a team, and lined up as a tight end, and became the BEST tight end in the league, he should still be considered a QB, and paid as a QB, because he was drafted as a QB, and he just moved to a different spot in the offense because he sucks at throwing?

Because that is essentially the argument you are making right now.

 

[Kontradiction]

So basically, what you are saying, is even if Tim Tebow was signed by a team, and lined up as a tight end, and became the BEST tight end in the league, he should still be considered a QB, and paid as a QB, because he was drafted as a QB, and he just moved to a different spot in the offense because he sucks at throwing?

Because that is essentially the argument you are making right now.

This is an especially piss poor straw man.

 

[chasa]

This is an especially piss poor straw man.

That quote could have been used for every post you made in this thread, which basically boils down to "Graham isn't a good blocker, so they line him up at Wr(outside and in the slot), but hes still a Te"

 

[Kontradiction]

That quote could have been used for every post you made in this thread, which basically boils down to "Graham isn't a good blocker, so they line him up at Wr(outside and in the slot), but hes still a Te"

It's a piss poor straw man since you're trying to simplify my argument for the purpose of making it easier to attack. There's numerous things wrong with it beginning with the fact that a quarterback lining up at TE is irrelevant and ending with the fact that not only WR's line up in the slot. Next time, try to attack my actual argument.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Maybe he should stop referring to himself as a Tight End in his twitter bio when filing a lawsuit to argue he's a WR.....

He is a TE. It's what he declared as in the NFL draft and he still lines up next to the OT enough times to warrant being called one. It's what he even refers to himself as and, most importantly, the TEAM designates his position on the roster...not the player.

I don't feel sorry for him at all. This is the correct ruling.

He's just sore he got tagged.

 

[Kontradiction]

Maybe he should stop referring to himself as a Tight End in his twitter bio when filing a lawsuit to argue he's a WR.....

He is a TE. It's what he declared as in the NFL draft and he still lines up next to the OT enough times to warrant being called one. It's what he even refers to himself as and, most importantly, the TEAM designates his position on the roster...not the player.

I don't feel sorry for him at all. This is the correct ruling.

He's just sore he got tagged.

I mean, I'd be sore too. He was looking at another $5M in cold, hard cash if he won the case. It's just unfortunate that he's a TE in this league and no amount of lining up in the slot to hide your blocking deficiencies is going to change that.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I mean, I'd be sore too. He was looking at another $5M in cold, hard cash if he won the case. It's just unfortunate that he's a TE in this league and no amount of lining up in the slot to hide your blocking deficiencies is going to change that.

Absolutely. I'd have probably tried my luck too!

 

[Wheelman]

For your third sentence, what did you consider Hernandez, if not a TE?

A dynamic player. I didn't have a position for him. He lined up as RB, FB, next to a lineman, slot, out wide. He was not very good at blocking either, not sure who was worse, Graham or Hernandez.

If he had to have a position I'd just say receiver. I remember his agent had plans on getting him tagged as a WR if he didn't get a contract and got franchised.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Well he IS a TE...so this shouldn't surprise anyone

 

[ausbacker]

Well he IS a TE...so this shouldn't surprise anyone

It is my one great hope that Gronk regains full health and is able to play an entire season to remind the idiots in the media what a dominant Tight End looks like as an overall pass catching and blocking package.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

If the CBA says that the team has to franchise a player based on where he lined up, and he lined up 67% of the time as a WR.. I don't blame Graham for pushing this. He's only following the CBA, which already punishes NFLers more than CBAs in other sports.

 

[Deus Irae]

Terrible ruling. The NFL and NFLPA will have to get together and fix this, moving forward, or it's going to become a bigger problem.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Let's clear some things up about Jimmy Graham. I have no prob him wanting to be franchised a wr since his production is like a WR. Especially since he can't sign his $60million contract. But saying he is worth more $$ because he can't block is nuts. He should argue a different point. Unable to block makes him worth less $$. Also let's clear up who is the best TE. Many NFL analyst s are saying he is better than even a healthy Gronk. Graham was touted as a 6'7 260lb the who runs routes like a posession WR. I watched all his highlights and didn't see how he runs routes slightly quicker than Gronk. It was actually the other way around and clearly Gronk is quicker in his routes and more flexible and every bit the as athletic as Graham. Not to mention far more physical. And as for blocking its not even comparable, Gronk is an extra Olineman while Graham can't block. Graham gets the trophy as the best TE ONLY because Gronk misses so many games. If Gronk plays the whole season it won't be up for debate who is better out of Gronk and Graham. Gronk is a quicker route runner while every bit as athletic or more and far more physically dominant catching passes as well as blocking. Just watch both on youtube highlights.

 

[strngplyr]

I don't understand what it is you are arguing with me about here.

Grahams argument is that he lined up more outside, and in the slot, then next to the linemen. the numbers back that up.

This doesn't have a god damned thing to do with blocking, WR's block on running plays as well, its just down the field, or on screens. Good Blocker bad Blocker it doesn't matter, the argument is he lines up as a WR. The majority of time(which he does) and so he should be classified as a WR.

He classifies himself as a TE, why should he get the WR tag?

 

[Joker]

wait..Graham went into the league a tight end and now he wants to be a wide receiver?

This is the NFL...this ain't jail.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Let's clear some things up about Jimmy Graham. I have no prob him wanting to be franchised a wr since his production is like a WR. Especially since he can't sign his $60million contract. But saying he is worth more $$ because he can't block is nuts. He should argue a different point. Unable to block makes him worth less $$. Also let's clear up who is the best TE. Many NFL analyst s are saying he is better than even a healthy Gronk. Graham was touted as a 6'7 260lb the who runs routes like a posession WR. I watched all his highlights and didn't see how he runs routes slightly quicker than Gronk. It was actually the other way around and clearly Gronk is quicker in his routes and more flexible and every bit the as athletic as Graham. Not to mention far more physical. And as for blocking its not even comparable, Gronk is an extra Olineman while Graham can't block. Graham gets the trophy as the best TE ONLY because Gronk misses so many games. If Gronk plays the whole season it won't be up for debate who is better out of Gronk and Graham. Gronk is a quicker route runner while every bit as athletic or more and far more physically dominant catching passes as well as blocking. Just watch both on youtube highlights.

You went way off topic here. This has nothing to do with Gronkowski or blocking. It has everything to do with where Graham lined up on the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's clear some things up about Jimmy Graham. I have no prob him wanting to be franchised a wr since his production is like a WR. Especially since he can't sign his $60million contract. But saying he is worth more $$ because he can't block is nuts. He should argue a different point. Unable to block makes him worth less $$. Also let's clear up who is the best TE. Many NFL analyst s are saying he is better than even a healthy Gronk. Graham was touted as a 6'7 260lb the who runs routes like a posession WR. I watched all his highlights and didn't see how he runs routes slightly quicker than Gronk. It was actually the other way around and clearly Gronk is quicker in his routes and more flexible and every bit the as athletic as Graham. Not to mention far more physical. And as for blocking its not even comparable, Gronk is an extra Olineman while Graham can't block. Graham gets the trophy as the best TE ONLY because Gronk misses so many games. If Gronk plays the whole season it won't be up for debate who is better out of Gronk and Graham. Gronk is a quicker route runner while every bit as athletic or more and far more physically dominant catching passes as well as blocking. Just watch both on youtube highlights.

What exactly is your role in the Patriots PR department?

 

[Kontradiction]

If the CBA says that the team has to franchise a player based on where he lined up, and he lined up 67% of the time as a WR.. I don't blame Graham for pushing this. He's only following the CBA, which already punishes NFLers more than CBAs in other sports.

But it's not only WR's that line up in the slot. Kellen Winslow lined up in the slot in his day and I don't see anybody referring to him as a WR. Same thing with modern day TE's like Gronk and Gonzalez.

 

[Deus Irae]

But it's not only WR's that line up in the slot. Kellen Winslow lined up in the slot in his day and I don't see anybody referring to him as a WR. Same thing with modern day TE's like Gronk and Gonzalez.

Graham spends more time split wide and in the slot than he does inline. The arbitrator based his decision on a non-existent 4 yard line of demarcation, the consistent application of which would turn slot receivers, often the smallest players on the offense, into tight ends.

It was a very stupid ruling.