It's not all black and white

[bigfandan]

So you are saying is that when

1. Las Vegas preseason odds list Pats as the favorite to win the superbowl, ie people put money on line
2. and, Football analysts view pats the favorite to win AFC
3. and, Brady coming back to a team that went 11-5 with Cassell at QB
4. and, Most of this board were predicting pats to win 13 to 14 games
5. and, Pats added a ton of draft picks and FAs and appear to be loaded for a SB run

that

Bill somehow saw that this team had no chance of competing before the season started and therefore traded away Seymour!?

or was it that you just conveniently used it as an excuse after a disappointing season full of mistakes, many of which can be attributed to Bill?

Or that BB knew this would be a rebuilding year and with or without Seymour the Pats weren't likely to be elite. Then along comes Al Davis and offers a #1 pick for Seymour which is simply too much value to turn down.

 

[unoriginal]

Recall many on this board speculated at the time that Bill must have been very pleased with progress by youngsters to make such a bold trade. Oh well, we are nothing if not optimists. ... Believe it or not, people were high on Gallaway, Alex Smith, Mathews, Lewis when the trades were made.)

Mike Wright did have a very good season.

 

[bigfandan]

Baltimore ran wild on what used to be Seymour's side, didn't they?

Mike Wright did have a very good season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Baltimore ran wild on what used to be Seymour's side, didn't they?

Pretty much.

 

[emoney_33]

Baltimore ran wild on what used to be Seymour's side, didn't they?

Pretty much.

To the tune of 3.4 YPC, that's not running wild by any standards. Please don't make me break down the drives again.

Btw, the botched 83 Yard TD was up the gut on a play that Jarvis beat his man, but there was nothing that he nor Seymour if he were there could have done.

The run defense was NOT good this season, but you are using the wrong example because it wasn't bad in the Ravens game.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To the tune of 3.4 YPC, that's not running wild by any standards. Please don't make me break down the drives again.

Btw, the botched 83 Yard TD was up the gut on a play that Jarvis beat his man, but there was nothing that he nor Seymour if he were there could have done.

The run defense was NOT good this season, but you are using the wrong example because it wasn't bad in the Ravens game.

There you go arguing off analysis again. :enranged:

 

[RobertWeathers]

To the tune of 3.4 YPC, that's not running wild by any standards. Please don't make me break down the drives again.

Btw, the botched 83 Yard TD was up the gut on a play that Jarvis beat his man, but there was nothing that he nor Seymour if he were there could have done.

The run defense was NOT good this season, but you are using the wrong example because it wasn't bad in the Ravens game.

They did run to Seymour's side most of the day.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

They did run to Seymour's side most of the day.

Same complaint people have had the last couple seasons with Seymour in there. It's fact that Ty Warren is stouter against the run then Sey was on a game-to-game basis.

 

[Deus Irae]

Same complaint people have had the last couple seasons with Seymour in there. It's fact that Ty Warren is stouter against the run then Sey was on a game-to-game basis.

I don't know where you got that notion, but everything I've seen shows just the opposite.

 

[supafly]

I don't know where you got that notion, but everything I've seen shows just the opposite.

I too thought that the defensive right side was statistically much better against the run (up until Seymour's departure).

With much respect to Box, of course.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I too thought that the defensive right side was statistically much better against the run (up until Seymour's departure).

With much respect to Box, of course.

Perhaps DI or someone will link to or share snippets from someone like Joyner who breaks things down that way. The few times I've seen such breakdowns showed Ty stuffing the run better than Sey - though whichever OLB was on that side could have made a difference, and you do have to account for injury, such as Ty's 2008 groin tear. My eyes generally show teams running at NE's right side which has usually been Seymour or Green. Wright and Smith filled in for parts of 2008 when Ty was out, but he's been pretty tough to run on.

 

[bigfandan]

You are either skewing or making up the statistics!

YPC for Baltimore is 4.5 (52 carries for 234 yards) for the entire game including kneel downs at end of half and end of game.

If you look at carries by Raven's two main running backs, the YPC is 5.3 (Rice and McGahee, 42 carries for 221 yards), after excluding Flacco's carries (kneel downs) and McClain's carries (milking the clock).

The ypc did not fully reflect their dominance in running due to a key factor - the Raven offense had very short field positions for almost entire 1st half (starting at NE 17, 42, 25, and 9). Rice and McGahee had a very condensed defense to run through on these drives, because the secondary is essentially up in the box. Their only other possesion in 1st half was the opening possession on the Raven 17, and that went for long TD run. So total dominance in Ravens run game no matter how you slice it.

To the tune of 3.4 YPC, that's not running wild by any standards. Please don't make me break down the drives again.

Btw, the botched 83 Yard TD was up the gut on a play that Jarvis beat his man, but there was nothing that he nor Seymour if he were there could have done.

The run defense was NOT good this season, but you are using the wrong example because it wasn't bad in the Ravens game.

 

[emoney_33]

You are either skewing or making up the statistics!

The skew is actually from the first play of the game. The 83 yard TD botched play, while it is a negative point to the defense, skews the overall numbers for the rest of the game. A game in which they did NOT allow the Ravens to run wild (aside from that stupid 83 yard TD).

YPC for Baltimore is 4.5 (52 carries for 234 yards) for the entire game including kneel downs at end of half and end of game.

Take out 83 yard TD and it's 51 carries for 2.96 YPC.

If you look at carries by Raven's two main running backs, the YPC is 5.3 (Rice and McGahee, 42 carries for 221 yards), after excluding Flacco's carries (kneel downs) and McClain's carries (milking the clock).

Take out the 84 yard TD and it's 3.4 YPC (3.6 for Rice, 3.1 for McGahee).

The ypc did not fully reflect their dominance in running due to a key factor - the Raven offense had very short field positions for almost entire 1st half (starting at NE 17, 42, 25, and 9). Rice and McGahee had a very condensed defense to run through on these drives, because the secondary is essentially up in the box. Their only other possesion in 1st half was the opening possession on the Raven 17, and that went for long TD run. So total dominance in Ravens run game no matter how you slice it.

Actually I've already broken down the game drive by drive already. In the 6 drives that didn't start inside the 25 and weren't end-of-half, the Ravens punted 4 times, threw an INT and drove for that long TD to start the 4th quarter (which saw some key 3rd downs saved by the pass). Of the 4 drives that started inside the 25, 2 were held to FGs.

Now the run defense wasn't great (they allowed a couple of 5 yard runs and a 9 yard run on the two inside-25 redzone TDs), but it didn't get dominated and was absolutely good enough to win. The offense also averaged under 4 plays per drive in the 1st half.

 

[bigfandan]

3.6 YPC WITHOUT big pays, that is bad in your eyes? You can't just discard big plays, can you? What's a good ypc by NFL playoff standard without big plays? Baltimore started short-field drives on Pats, Ray Rice was still able to churn out 5 yard gains even with the loaded box.

When team need the run d the most, (after the offense made mistakes), the defense gave up towndowns and the game was basically over.

Take out the 84 yard TD and it's 3.4 YPC (3.6 for Rice, 3.1 for McGahee).

 

[emoney_33]

3.6 YPC WITHOUT big pays, that is bad in your eyes? You can't just discard big plays, can you? What's a good ypc by NFL playoff standard without big plays? Baltimore started short-field drives on Pats, Ray Rice was still able to churn out 5 yard gains even with the loaded box.

When team need the run d the most, (after the offense made mistakes), the defense gave up towndowns and the game was basically over.

The defense gave up 2 TDs and 2 FGs when the Ravens were given the ball inside the 25. There is rarely a defense that would do a whole lot better than that.

3.6 YPC without a big play is not "dominant" that is correct. Rice had 5.2 YPC against the colts btw and averaged 4.4 YPC during the regular season.

The Ravens game does not indicate a game lost because of being dominated by the run. Just look at the drives that weren't given to the Ravens inside the 25. They punted 4 times, threw an INT and scored a TD. Trying to cover from the 17, 25 and 9 all in the first quarter isn't going to look good for any defense. If they had the all important field position, the 3.6 YPC wouldn't have looked so bad. Their offense would have been forced to pass more and the game would look dramatically different.