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its all in the details.........

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by tanked_as_usual, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    Emotion, few details, in Obama's health care pitch - Yahoo! News

    he has no idea how he's going to do it............he's just going to do it:
    - provide coverage to 50 million who don't have it
    - and lower cost for the rest of us (or 95% of us anyway)

    so where is the money going to come from?
    this thing is insolvent before it even starts.........
     
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    The actual purpose of all of this is to share the pain, not to share the wealth. Sharing wealth requires education, effort, and self-sacrifice. The ethic today is almost 100% against all of these things. Everything has been dumbed down to the "easiest" way, 80" plasma TV in every kitchen, a Bentley in every drive-way, free drugs and alcohol. And, of course, sex anytime anywhere with whomever.


    //
     
  3. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    thats not the point.......it's like adding 20% to the payroll....except that you will have to remember that by the time this thing is settled, every public employee will be exempt.........every union employee will be exempt........and the rest of us are going to foot the bill while watching the service we get turn to crap......

    SCREW THAT
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I read an article recently that unlike the Clinton White House, Obama's approach to major legislation is to allow Congress to take the lead. He is not offering specifics, but has indicated more generally what he wants and his aides are working closely with Congress. If he presented a plan, as Hillary Clinton did years ago, Obama would become the focal point and it would be easier to sow discord among the Congressional Democrats. So, the reason Obama is not going into specifics is because that's his strategy to get a health care plan passed.
     
  5. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    this makes no sense at all
     
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    That's not leadership. That's backseat driving and it's unbecoming of a president of the United States who's sitting on a fillibuster-proof Congress. It's immoral how he's laying back right now and we STILL HAVE NO ENERGY POLICY! WTF is this guy doing? His negligence is stunning! This is not the time for kicking back and letting things happen. If that's what this country wanted, McCain would be president.

    Pull the troops out of the Middle East, cut foreign aid to the bare minimum, stop payments to the UN, retool the power grid, and GET THE FCK TO WORK!
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't agree. The Democrats have been trying since the '70s to get some sort of national health care and have not succeeded. Part of the reason for their failure was that it was easy for Democratic congresspeople to blame the plan. But, now, they don't have that option. Meanwhile, Obama is marshaling public support by publicly indicating a willingness to compromise in order to win bipartisan support for such legislation. Meanwhile, he and his staff are working directly with Congressional Democrats, and lesser extent Republicans, to determine the specifics of the plan. I think it's a good strategy.

    Whether you like the climate bill or not, it's obviously the cornerstone of Obama's energy policy. The challenge now for Obama is to stop a filibuster in the Senate, but that will be tricky because a number of the Democratic Senators are either conservative or are from states that be hurt in the short term by the plan.

    Looks like our troops are coming out of the Middle East. But, if you expect Obama to end support for the UN or end foreign aid, it's not going to happen. Liberals tend to think that foreign aid is a relatively low cost alternative to war in terms influencing foreign countries to have favorable policies towards American business. And the B.S. attitude about the UN is not based on facts, but based on highlighting areas where the UN has not succeeded, and ignoring the UN's many successes.
     
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    obama is all about staying clean. He lets Nancy do the dirty work then if it doesn't work he gets to wash his hands of it. He should be cuing that up pretty soon on the non stimulus stimulus now that we got another lousy jobs report.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    He lets them take the lead cuz he's got no clue, about how to do it himself. The guy's never run as much as a lemonade stand. Plus, if he lets them build it, he can deflect criticism. Leadership baby.

    Reading books only gets you so far. Obama is in way over his head. I can't help but laugh at the people who tried to sell him as, or believed he was, a pragmatist, or moderate. The guy is an ideologue. He reads books, has a certain world view, and in his mind (wouldn't be through any experiences since he's got none), since it sounds good, why not do it? Most people with Real World ;) experience, understand that talk is cheap.
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like it when you don't have a substantive response. 2 points for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  12. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yeah, that was the lamest cop-out I've seen in awhile.
     
  13. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    not really.........but even I can piece together a better response.......

    simple fact is that the resources simply don't exist to do what they want to do.......the kinds of taxes that need to be levied to make this kind of thing solvent are 5x what people are willing to stomach

    you say there 50 million uninsured people in the country......that means there are 250 million who are........and that means 250 million people that I can pretty much bet as a group would be almost unanimously against the taxes it would take to do this and have lesser benefits in the end

    great concept......number simply don't work........another way will need to be found
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Data shows that we spend at least 1/3rd per capita more on health insurance than the other developed countries. Data also shows that in many countries with national health care, consumer satisfaction is considerably higher than it is here. (That doesn't mean we do everything wrong, but it means we do some things wrong.)

    http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S. HCweb.pdf (See figure 1 and table 1.)

    Now using the 50 million figure (and frankly, conservatives seem to use different numbers depending on what's being discussed), it seems to me we should be able to provide these people with low cost health insurance, maintain a high level of care, and still save money.
     

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