it hurts to say goodbye,but-----

[I'm Ron Borges?]

To RayClay: Thank you for at least thinking before you replied, but you did say "You don't trade productive players for picks." As you noticed in a recent story, BB spent a day and a half picking Jimmy Johnson's brain down in Miami. If I recall, Jimmy Johnson sent a proven, highly effective RB (Herschel Walker) to Minnesota for a potfull of draft picks. Most sports writers all across the country point to this as the beginning of the Dallas Cowboys SB runs. Proven player for draft picks, what do I know?
Flying Fungi - You said Vince Wilfork didn't come through Miami. The year before we won the SB but also obtained Miami's #1 draft pick for our 2nd round draft pick that year. How else could we have gotten the 21st pick after winning the SB? If you insist that the Easter Bunny brought Vince Wilfork to New England, far be it from me to argue with you.
Michigan Dave - What can I say. Anybody who uses "wow" twice in one sentence would sure beat me in a battle of wits.
Thearchives - No, I'm not smoking, and no, I'm not thinking of paying Ty Law a ton of money to come back. I'm thinking of paying Richard Seymour most, if not all, of his bonus so that its not hanging over our heads in the future and signing what looks like tremendous rookies we got through the draft. You sound as though you used to handle the cap space for the Tennessee Titans, and we know how that all turned out. It wasn't long ago when we were stuck for millions and millions in dead cap money. Let's not go back there. As far as Branch, have we all forgotten that David Givens started out an unknown, which is basically what we've got with Jackson, Childress and Stone. I say the odds are one of them will step up. From what I've seen watching Caldwell, if he stays healthy, he'll be a keeper. Also, don't be surprised if Andrews plays nickleback ahead of Gay. One more point about Graham, replay all the playoff games and SB's in your head and tell me how big a part Graham played in the redzone during those games - receiving.

You have Willie Andrews already penciled in as the nickel back? Based on what? My guess is you have maybe seen Baylor play football once in the past four seasons so this is obviously an opinion based on nothing at all.

 

[Owl]

Primetime - Your rebuttal to my ideas for the Patriots was a thing of beauty. You picked apart everything, point by point, with your own convincing argument. The alternatives you laid out were sparkling. Summing up everything in one succinct sentence. "Clearly, sir, you have had a little too much to drink." Clearly, sir, your years on the debating team were not wasted.

 

[primetime]

Primetime - Your rebuttal to my ideas for the Patriots was a thing of beauty. You picked apart everything, point by point, with your own convincing argument. The alternatives you laid out were sparkling. Summing up everything in one succinct sentence. "Clearly, sir, you have had a little too much to drink." Clearly, sir, your years on the debating team were not wasted.

Excellent response. I applaud you, sir.

I really don't have any rebuttals as I don't feel any of the measures you proposed would be good for the team (since it would leave the team with the WR corps of Reche Caldwell and Chad Jackson, amongst others). However, it is an interesting point, and I have thought about the trade of Deion Branch myself. I don't think he would fetch a first, however, but I'm sure you already recognize that based on the general response to this thread.

 

[Owl]

As far as using the Walker trade as an example, why not use the example that most thread readers will be familiar with. The records of the teams involved has nothing to do with the trade itself. This past season didn't the Raiders trade a proven tight end for a pick which they drafted a tight end with? A proven player for a draft pick - never happened before in the history of the NFL, never worked, except some of the time. My insight on Willie Andrews are the local media who wrote, without exception, that Willie Andrews was the only one who could stay with Chad Jackson. Plus, I didn't say it would happen, I said I wouldn't be surprised. A number 1 draft choice for Deion Branch, but surely anybody could get at least a 2 for him. He's better than every receiver the Eagles have right now, plus they have the money to spend. The biggest charge I've had all night is for you to comment that my post had nothing to do with the Patriots and then argue at length over my ideas concerning Deion Branch, Willie Andrews, et al. But don't worry, I never try to inject factual matter into a discussion with somebody who's mind is already made up.

 

[Owl]

Primetime, we may disagree, but I am pleased to talk to such a gentleman as yourself. To quote a famous fictional detective, "it stimulates the grey cells." As far as Deion Branch getting us a #1 draft choice, that's all speculation on my part and everybody else's. I'd like to hope for the best, but I think you'll also agree getting a 2nd round would not need a lot of arm twisting. Plus the main point of the draft choices was getting enough choices of value to bundle for next year, not necessarily a #1 or #2, but enough to get us a couple of choices in the first round. As far as responses to my thread, my biggest hope would have been to have a stimulating discussion. In short, if you don't like my ideas - what are yours? In truth, it's broken my heart a little bit, not that people have said my ideas were dumb or valueless, but not one time did anybody come up with an alternative besides sign everybody and bring back Ty Law. How sad!

 

[Owl]

Primetime, this has nothing to do with our past discussion, just a small point of interest regarding the Super Bowl with the Eagles. Do you remember how the Colts, Seahawks and Rams inferred in one way or another how our defensive backs played dirty? Yet, not one announcer or sports writer noticed that Terrell Owens, who had come back from that ankle injury, was not hit once below the waist by any Patriot during the whole game. Just a small point.

 

[primetime]

Primetime, this has nothing to do with our past discussion, just a small point of interest regarding the Super Bowl with the Eagles. Do you remember how the Colts, Seahawks and Rams inferred in one way or another how our defensive backs played dirty? Yet, not one announcer or sports writer noticed that Terrell Owens, who had come back from that ankle injury, was not hit once below the waist by any Patriot during the whole game. Just a small point.

I thought the "playing dirty" was based on holding past the line of scrimmage. TO is such a talent that this didn't really matter, but luckily Randall Gay's assignment of him worked: he played loose and made the safe tackle everytime he touched the ball. Not only was this a genius of coaching, it also showed Gay was one of the best corners the Patriots had: capable of playing smaller receivers in coverage as well as minimizing the dominant tall receivers' yards after catch with a single tackle.

I'm not really sure what the front office should do with Branch. However, he is invaluable as Brady's favorite target... and, since the team lacks depth in this area, as the star of the receiving corps. I've come to the conclusion Branch is irreplaceable. I don't think Donte Stallworth or anyone could replace what he can do simply because they don't have the rapport with Brady, who is the team for all intents and purposes.

 

[patsox23]

To all the NEWBIES - yep, I said it - who have a problem with us slamming B.S. threads like this, please talk to the newbies who are giving you this bad rep. This is simplistic, moronic and ludicrous - PLEASE STOP. This is a great site, where disagreement is encouraged, diverse opinions are welcome, but when it is this off-the-wall, unrealistic and, frankly, ridiculous, it goes beyond the promise of diversity, veering instead into insanity.

Please let this be the last post of this thread. Let it wither on the vine.

 

[Owl]

Patsox23 - You bad mouth a post in the foulest way, without specifics, without details and obviously without the benefit of at least two connected brain cells. You have the audacity to put yourself in a position of judging whether a post should go on or not (that's more absurd than anything I could say, I could never be that presumptuous). You added that you hoped this post would wither on the vine. I, on the other hand, always encourage thought and discussion and the only thing I hope that withers is your ability to reproduce like-minded human beings.

 

[Owl]

Primetime - The "playing dirty" if you include Rodney Harrison in the equation, went far beyond holding past the line of scrimmage. The only point I was trying to make is that if you look at a replay of the game, Donovan McNabb for one had his ankles clipped out from under him and anytime TO ran out of bounds, we always went high (including Rodney) rather than going low at his ankles, which was still perfectly legal. I remember as a kid having somebody slap one of my ankles against the other, I can still feel it and if she hadn't been so much bigger than me, I would have said something!

 

[SoonerPatriot]

might as well trade brady while we're at it...

Yeah, no kiddin. This idea seems like a sure fire recipe to go 7-9, if that.

 

[Seymour93]

To all the NEWBIES - yep, I said it - who have a problem with us slamming B.S. threads like this, please talk to the newbies who are giving you this bad rep. This is simplistic, moronic and ludicrous - PLEASE STOP. This is a great site, where disagreement is encouraged, diverse opinions are welcome, but when it is this off-the-wall, unrealistic and, frankly, ridiculous, it goes beyond the promise of diversity, veering instead into insanity.

Please let this be the last post of this thread. Let it wither on the vine.

I've been reluctant to call for new measures to solve the problem, but this thread has pushed me over the edge. :bricks:

Perhaps we should make new registries wait 24 hours before gaining access, and also ban hotmail and yahoo email accounts, forcing legit users to use their IE or work email accounts.

As long as we don't have to pay, I'm fine with the change. Any other ideas?

 

[smg93]

As long as we don't have to pay, I'm fine with the change. Any other ideas?

One idea is to just ignore the thread if you don't like it. There's no reason to put any new rules for newbies or posters who you seriously don't agree with.

 

[pats1]

I've never seen a more delusional outlook on this coming season than what Owl has argued in this thread.

Never.

Nor have I seen anyone with such a fetish with draft picks, young players, and potential. Not even spacecrime!

Never.

 

[patchick]

Now as to the team being decimated by these 3 moves, I can only say to the rest of you, how does your fantasy football team look? You know, the one with Bledsoe, Andruzzi, Woody, Tim Dwight, Andre Davis, Ted Washington, Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, et al.

Common kiddo, you can't have it both ways. You yourself assumed these trades would make the team uncompetitive in the short term. The entire premise of your post was to give up on 2006 in order to build a killer team the following year. To quote you:

"a fully loaded team with no glaring weakness but that starts next year not now"


As for people fuming that your post shouldn't even be allowed to exist, come off it. It's on-topic and inoffensive. Besides, it's the deepest depths of off-season, and the board was desperate to tear apart some red meat like this.

 

[Pats726]

Huh??? Always nice to have a laugh before the season starts...

 

[pats1]

and the board was desperate to tear apart some red meat like this.

And just wait for the real guns to enter the thread. Then, and only then, will this be a real cookout.

 

[shmessy]

Common kiddo, you can't have it both ways. You yourself assumed these trades would make the team uncompetitive in the short term. The entire premise of your post was to give up on 2006 in order to build a killer team the following year. To quote you:

"a fully loaded team with no glaring weakness but that starts next year not now"


As for people fuming that your post shouldn't even be allowed to exist, come off it. It's on-topic and inoffensive. Besides, it's the deepest depths of off-season, and the board was desperate to tear apart some red meat like this.

Well put, Patchick. I can't fathom Owl's reasoning here, but it is on-topic and inoffensive. We can all pick it apart (and some of the give and take has been fun to read), but it's not like Owl is pushing a Superman movie or ranting politics.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

We pickup David Patton upon release. We trade Branch to Philly and Graham to Bronco.

Branch to Philly is a theoretical possibility. Graham will NOT be traded this year, per BB.

That should get us a first and second round choice in next years draft and we could even send Neal to the west coast for a second rounder.

At the moment, the Pats are likely to have the standard 7 picks plus 4 comp picks. [And, BTW, if we had to trade someone for a draft pick, I'd rather send Gorin.]

That allows us to pick up a receiver plus a cornerback in the first round.

Who would you take, then?

The picks that are left, a future center and a blocking tightend. now depending on injuries we have a very good chance at three-in-a-row.

A lot of people here would argue that the Pats have about as good a chance of doing that with the team as it stands *now*.

no more contract disputes, a fully loaded team with no glaring weakness but that starts next year not now. we still have a shot this year but only if Brady and the kids click and Rodney comes back for second half of season.

This would actually make sense if the Pats were truly struggling, and not likely to make the playoffs at all. Even if they made all these trades, though, they'd still have a decent chance of making the playoffs (and thus not picking before #21, no matter their record).

Dante can get one of the o-line picks to fill Neal's spot. look what he did last year. But if you can picture next year. Chad, Reche and a first rounder, with Bam and Stone filling in. Yes that means Troy Brown and David Patton will be gone but age catches up to everyone. This is an offense that is as good or better than the rest of the NFL. The rest of the decade Bill could concentrate on defensive players corners,linebackrs and d-line, plus he could go for the cream of the crop. Would like to know,what do you think?

Obviously you have a fairly grandiose plan in mind for the 2007 draft. Maybe if you shared your thoughts on that, it might add some merit to your suggestions.

You quote the Herschel Walker trade as an example of trading a proven player for draft picks. But the Cowboys also received a bunch of current Vikings players, too (and, BTW, the owners of the Vikings were just plain bonkers to give up that much for him). In your scenario, we give up Branch and get, say, a second-round draft pick in 2007 and lose his services in 2006. OTOH, if Branch leaves as a UFA in 2007, the Pats get his services in 2006 and a third- or fourth-round comp pick in 2008. I suspect the latter has more value to the Pats than the former.

 

[pats1]

I've been reluctant to call for new measures to solve the problem, but this thread has pushed me over the edge. :bricks:

Perhaps we should make new registries wait 24 hours before gaining access, and also ban hotmail and yahoo email accounts, forcing legit users to use their IE or work email accounts.

As long as we don't have to pay, I'm fine with the change. Any other ideas?

Here's one:

No posting allowed during the hours of 9 PM and 6 AM Saturday night and Sunday morning.

:eat2: