It cannot get much worse, so why not?

[Brady6]

First, I will ignore all the hype that you gave the OL's that the patriots drafts, thinking that they ALL would be starters.
================
I think think it amusing at your position, given that you who were so psyched about the three draftees that you wanted to cut Wendell and Connolly now and Mankins next year.

More importantly, please post the rating which show them to be 7th round or UDFA rated players. I looked a walterfootball rating (they are may better).

Stork was 4-6 round rating, OK given the need to develop a center, and the fact that he was from a major program.

Fleming was a 3-4 round rating. He is a bit raw. Most think of him as a future RG, or even RT as he played in college. Personally, I think he well met the need for a swing OT, with Cannon possibly moving to OG or even gone next year.

Hilapio (rated as 3-5 rounder) was a shot in the dark with a 6th rounder. Some here (I'll dig out all you posts if you like) thought that he was rady to start this year. Some thought next year. Some thought that he was a shot in the dark to make the 53 or even the Practice Squad, given that we had Devey, Kline and Barker.
=========

For me, I was indeed surprised, but not about the draftees. I was surprised that Belichick thought so much of them, Devey and Kline that he thought it reasonable to cut Mankins. I was also wrong about thinking that Cannon was considered an OT by belichick, and not a guard.

You have the wrong poster, I was not high on Stork or Halapio, I said from the day Halapio was drafted he would not even make the team. I never said crap about cutting Mankins, I said it came down to Connolly and Wendell, and that was because Reiss had the 3 rookies as sure fire locks. I did not like anything about are draft except for Easley and Moore, go back and read the draft board, I was very vocal about my unhappiness with the choices.

 

[Brady6]

C'mon man. Pull pack from the self importance and simply ignore a comment if you don't like it. The number of posts and their frequency isn't indicative of quality.

He made an asinine comment, unnecessary, that is indicative of quality, I do not care about posts counts either, but if you only stop by to make a smug comment, you do not bring much in the way of value in my opinion.

 

[Brady6]

OK, at your suggestion, I have reconsidered the picture. Three weeks ago, many thought that we had the best roster since 2007. We have played one game, and played poorly for one half of that game. So, the evidence is in; we sucked for an entire half. Next week is another game.

I see no reason for projecting stats from one game, as if all the games will be like Game 1 for us or for any team.

3 weeks ago we had an all pro left guard and the captain/tone setter for our OL. A line of Solder-Mankins-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer is a damn good line, take Mankins out, move Cannon to Brady’s blindside OG, insert Wendell or Devey and it goes down like the titanic.

 

[jetlifelo]

damn... Patriots having O-Line issues... keep it up til week 7 please! Big Mo'Wilk and D'ROY have a surprise for youuuu

 

[ausbacker]

He made an asinine comment, unnecessary, that is indicative of quality, I do not care about posts counts either, but if you only stop by to make a smug comment, you do not bring much in the way of value in my opinion.

Many people would say your willingness to offer an opinion on everything clutters the board. It swings both ways @Brady6, something you would be wise to realize.

Pushing that aside, why are you a proponent of Fleming to RG ahead of someone else?

 

[mgteich]

3 weeks ago we had an all pro left guard and the captain/tone setter for our OL. A line of Solder-Mankins-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer is a damn good line, take Mankins out, move Cannon to Brady’s blindside OG, insert Wendell or Devey and it goes down like the titanic.

The OL didn't go down like the Titanic last year when Kline played LG, in the short time he was out there. It would seem that we would be better off with Solder-Kline-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer than with inserting of Devey at RG. If Cannon is a starting quality guard, then Connolly-Cannon should be an upgrade to Wendell-Connolly.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You should look at the snap counts for last season and the season before. With the exception of injuries the OT played 98% of the snaps.

I completely disagree that they would start Fleming and leave Cannon at guard. They would move Cannon to tackle and insert Kline, Devey, or Wendell, whoever the back up is. They would want the backup player at an inside position long term and not playing against edge rushers. This is why Cannon played both OT positions in the preseason.

Well yeah, no ****. The point is that "with the exception of injuries" is a pretty enormous disclaimer, especially when Vollmer is your RT. There needs to be a contingency plan for if/when tackles go down, and a contingency that entails juggling your line more than necessary is a bad one. In other words, your third tackle should never, by design, be a starting guard.

If injuries force you to run with that midgame, then so be it, but planning on that just sets you up for week 1 of 2014 anytime someone goes down. We saw just this week how bad things can get when you juggle the line too much. Continuity matters.

 

[Brady6]

Many people would say your willingness to offer an opinion on everything clutters the board. It swings both ways @Brady6, something you would be wise to realize.

Pushing that aside, why are you a proponent of Fleming to RG ahead of someone else?

Unless you go with Solder-Cannon-Wendell-Connolly-Vollmer as the OL there is going to be a player at OC or RG that is inexperienced. In my opinion of the Devey, Kline, Stork, Fleming, and Barker group Fleming is head and shoulders more talented than the others. Therefore, it we are going to have an inexperienced player at RG I would prefer it be Fleming than a JAG UDFA such as Devey who for some reason Belichick has become enamored with trying to will to success. I like UDFA, there have been some decent ones over the years but in my experience in this day and age of scouting and technology advancements if a player doesn't go in the draft it is due to a lack of talent that will limit the player from ever being more than a fringe roster player with a ceiling of serviceable starter.

 

[BradyFTW!]

First, I will ignore all the hype that you gave the OL's that the patriots drafts, thinking that they ALL would be starters.
================
I think think it amusing at your position, given that you who were so psyched about the three draftees that you wanted to cut Wendell and Connolly now and Mankins next year.

More importantly, please post the rating which show them to be 7th round or UDFA rated players. I looked a walterfootball rating (they are may better).

Stork was 4-6 round rating, OK given the need to develop a center, and the fact that he was from a major program.

Fleming was a 3-4 round rating. He is a bit raw. Most think of him as a future RG, or even RT as he played in college. Personally, I think he well met the need for a swing OT, with Cannon possibly moving to OG or even gone next year.

Hilapio (rated as 3-5 rounder) was a shot in the dark with a 6th rounder. Some here (I'll dig out all you posts if you like) thought that he was rady to start this year. Some thought next year. Some thought that he was a shot in the dark to make the 53 or even the Practice Squad, given that we had Devey, Kline and Barker.
=========

For me, I was indeed surprised, but not about the draftees. I was surprised that Belichick thought so much of them, Devey and Kline that he thought it reasonable to cut Mankins. I was also wrong about thinking that Cannon was considered an OT by belichick, and not a guard.

Who was rating Halapio as a third round prospect? I'm not on the "that was an awful pick!" bandwagon, since I don't think it's a huge deal if a 6th rounder doesn't work out. I never saw anyone suggest that Halapio was great value where he was picked, though. I'm fairly sure that nobody thought that.

 

[ausbacker]

Unless you go with Solder-Cannon-Wendell-Connolly-Vollmer as the OL there is going to be a player at OC or RG that is inexperienced. In my opinion of the Devey, Kline, Stork, Fleming, and Barker group Fleming is head and shoulders more talented than the others. Therefore, it we are going to have an inexperienced player at RG I would prefer it be Fleming than a JAG UDFA such as Devey who for some reason Belichick has become enamored with trying to will to success. I like UDFA, there have been some decent ones over the years but in my experience in this day and age of scouting and technology advancements if a player doesn't go in the draft it is due to a lack of talent that will limit the player from ever being more than a fringe roster player with a ceiling of serviceable starter.

Interesting opinion. My preferred line-up is Solder - Cannon/Connolly - Stork - Cannon/Connolly - Vollmer for reasons similar to what you mentioned.

I routinely beat my head against the desk when I see Wendell at CE.

 

[mgteich]

You have the wrong poster, I was not high on Stork or Halapio, I said from the day Halapio was drafted he would not even make the team.

Now, this is truly funny.

On July 15th, you posted that Hilapio was a LOCK to make the team. I believe on that date I agreed, but fell off the wagon soon after. You remained fully on board.

But we are talking about you.

On July 16th, you suggested that Hilapio would not be a starter.

On August 17, you said that you would be surprised if they didn't keep Hilapio.

On August 18, Hilapio was on your roster. You argued here that he was clearly better than Wendell, Kline and Devey.

 

[Brady6]

Now, this is truly funny.

On July 15th, you posted that Hilapio was a LOCK to make the team. I believe on that date I agreed, but fell off the wagon soon after. You remained fully on board.

But we are talking about you.

On July 16th, you suggested that Hilapio would not be a starter.

On August 17, you said that you would be surprised if they didn't keep Hilapio.

On August 18, Hilapio was on your roster. You argued here that he was clearly better than Wendell, Kline and Devey.

Please show me these posts, because I do not recall ever saying anything of that nature. I said in the draft thread on the day he was drafted that he would not even make the roster, Reiss had him as a sure fire lock so I shift my opinion to incorporate that based on what I thought was creditable information. I never said anything about him being better than anyone is.

 

[Brady6]

Interesting opinion. My preferred line-up is Solder - Cannon/Connolly - Stork - Cannon/Connolly - Vollmer for reasons similar to what you mentioned.

I routinely beat my head against the desk when I see Wendell at CE.

I am not a big fan of Stork personally, I could be wrong about him, hell I hope I am but I think he lacks the athleticism to do what we expect are center to do.

Wendell is a problem, Connolly would be the best at center right now in my opinion, but honestly I am all for taking the approach they took with Jones, Hightower, and Dennard in 2012 and just letting Fleming and Stork play through it and hope they are solid by the playoffs.

 

[Brady6]

Who was rating Halapio as a third round prospect? I'm not on the "that was an awful pick!" bandwagon, since I don't think it's a huge deal if a 6th rounder doesn't work out. I never saw anyone suggest that Halapio was great value where he was picked, though. I'm fairly sure that nobody thought that.

Every board I saw had him a PFA with a high of seventh round.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664562/jon-halapio

The same thing was true for Stork.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664465/bryan-stork

 

[PatFanCraig]

This patchwork OLine littered with Undrafted unwanted players is getting out of control. Did Bill think he would get away with fringe starters every season. Glass slipper comes off after a while. Its catching up to the team, Connolly and Wendy take for granted they get to block the same player. Patriots are usually more prepared than other teams week one. This circus of rotating players has players confused. Its not advanced scheming its not having talent worth naming starters who can do the job week to week. Superbowl teams put their best starters forward to handle any task. With that said get rid of below average players, your lucky to win a game much less the Superbowl. To stabilize the OLine, the best players have to play to improve and get up to speed. Fleming has prototype power and talent for right guard. With Cannon Connolly and Fleming, the talent is there to get the online on track and maybe even dominate with a pair of guards over 330 lbs with athleticism to play tackle if absolutely necessary but best at guard. With Devey Wendy and Kline the ceiling is hopefully not struggling to much because they can't match up with most starting DTs one on one. They don't have the power or talent. Cannon Connolly Fleming is a stout unit. If Stork outplays Connolly they could even be dominant by playoff time.

 

[DefenseRules]

This patchwork OLine littered with Undrafted unwanted players is getting out of control. Did Bill think he would get away with fringe starters every season. Glass slipper comes off after a while. Its catching up to the team, Connolly and Wendy take for granted they get to block the same player. Patriots are usually more prepared than other teams week one. This circus of rotating players has players confused. Its not advanced scheming its not having talent worth naming starters who can do the job week to week. Superbowl teams put their best starters forward to handle any task. With that said get rid of below average players, your lucky to win a game much less the Superbowl. To stabilize the OLine, the best players have to play to improve and get up to speed. Fleming has prototype power and talent for right guard. With Cannon Connolly and Fleming, the talent is there to get the online on track and maybe even dominate with a pair of guards over 330 lbs with athleticism to play tackle if absolutely necessary but best at guard. With Devey Wendy and Kline the ceiling is hopefully not struggling to much because they can't match up with most starting DTs one on one. They don't have the power or talent. Cannon Connolly Fleming is a stout unit. If Stork outplays Connolly they could even be dominant by playoff time.

Sadly, I don't think the coach sees it this way.

 

[p8ryts]

Wow, with contributions like this to discussions I can see why I didn't even realize you were a user on here.. .

It was one game in Miami where they lose every year ( mostly) they didn't handle the heat and you have no faith in BB and want to put two rookies in the middle of the line in game 2. That's why I questioned your experience.

 

[Brady6]

It was one game in Miami where they lose every year ( mostly) they didn't handle the heat and you have no faith in BB and want to put two rookies in the middle of the line in game 2. That's why I questioned your experience.

My post is logical; it is to put Fleming an inexperienced player at RG instead of Devey an inexperienced player with significantly less talent and upside. You would hope that Stork was drafted to start so why not just let him learn on the job, you cannot tell me the gap is going to be that big between him and Wendell even if Stork was green as the day is long.

My experience is fine, I want to put are most talented players on the field, not Jordan Devey and Ryan Wendell who were JAG UDFA who lingered on practice squads and should be working 9-5 somewhere by now but for some reason Belichick feels compelled to prolong the inevitable.

 

[Joker]

Please show me these posts, because I do not recall ever saying anything of that nature. I said in the draft thread on the day he was drafted that he would not even make the roster, Reiss had him as a sure fire lock so I shift my opinion to incorporate that based on what I thought was creditable information. I never said anything about him being better than anyone is.

Will Belichick Cut His First 4th-Round Rookie Draftee? | PatsFans.com Messageboard

mgteich said: ↑
Belichick is always developing young linemen. This year is no exception. And yes, there are usually a player or two over 30.

It does not follow that we should keep all 5 young prospects (rookies plus Kline and Devey). Any of them could be future starters. Some would even think that of Barker and Cave, last year's prospects at center. I think that Belichick disagrees or he wouldn't have drafted Stork.​

Personally, I believe that since Belichick believed enough in Stork and Fleming to draft them in the 4th round, they will make team as every early draftee has for a dozen years. Andy disagrees with Belichick's approach; I don't. In any case, I don't see this year as the year of the great change.

You present somewhat of a smokescreen. All of us want to keep at least 3 youngsters. We have lots to choose from: Stork, Fleming, Devey, Kline, Hilapio, Cave and Barker. I think a prospect at each position is fine: Stork, Fleming and Devey (or Kline or Hilapio).

You seem to want Hilapio over Kline or Devey. Most of us disagree. It would seem that we would try to have either Hilapio and/or Devey on the Practice Squad if they don't make the team.

You seem to think that Hilapio won't pass waivers. Perhaps you're right. However, I wouldn't cut a better OL prospect to keep Hilapio.

BOTTOM LINE
I think that you would have Cannon as a starter and have no veterans as backups, keeping four young backups. I disagree with that approach. In the end, we are really discussing ONE difference between us. I would keep Wendell instead of Hilapio.

You think that Devey and Kline are better prospects than Stork, Fleming, and Halapio? I can tell you Stork, Fleming, and Halapio are all further along at this juncture in their career than Kline or Devey were last year when they were 3 months into their NFL careers. You confuse a player having 18 months of experience and coaching with the player being a better prospect. Where were Kline and Devey last year at this time.

This is the roster I am keeping personally:

LT- Solder
LG- Mankins, Kline
OC- Connolly, Stork
RG- Cannon, Halapio
RT- Vollmer, Fleming

I do not think Wendell would even get signed if he was cut so he could be on the shadow roster. The NFL is a young mans game, you consistently advocate for veterans which is fine to each their own but of the veterans in recent years how many have panned out? Andre Carter, maybe Tommy Kelly. Now how many have failed.​

Every assertion MG made about the posts YOU made are 100% accurate. The above post is just one example. I can post all of the posts you made that prove MG's point if need be.

 

[Brady6]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/posts/3876718/

mgteich said: ↑
Belichick is always developing young linemen. This year is no exception. And yes, there are usually a player or two over 30.

It does not follow that we should keep all 5 young prospects (rookies plus Kline and Devey). Any of them could be future starters. Some would even think that of Barker and Cave, last year's prospects at center. I think that Belichick disagrees or he wouldn't have drafted Stork.

Personally, I believe that since Belichick believed enough in Stork and Fleming to draft them in the 4th round, they will make team as every early draftee has for a dozen years. Andy disagrees with Belichick's approach; I don't. In any case, I don't see this year as the year of the great change.

You present somewhat of a smokescreen. All of us want to keep at least 3 youngsters. We have lots to choose from: Stork, Fleming, Devey, Kline, Hilapio, Cave and Barker. I think a prospect at each position is fine: Stork, Fleming and Devey (or Kline or Hilapio).

You seem to want Hilapio over Kline or Devey. Most of us disagree. It would seem that we would try to have either Hilapio and/or Devey on the Practice Squad if they don't make the team.

You seem to think that Hilapio won't pass waivers. Perhaps you're right. However, I wouldn't cut a better OL prospect to keep Hilapio.

BOTTOM LINE
I think that you would have Cannon as a starter and have no veterans as backups, keeping four young backups. I disagree with that approach. In the end, we are really discussing ONE difference between us. I would keep Wendell instead of Hilapio.
Click to expand...
You think that Devey and Kline are better prospects than Stork, Fleming, and Halapio? I can tell you Stork, Fleming, and Halapio are all further along at this juncture in their career than Kline or Devey were last year when they were 3 months into their NFL careers. You confuse a player having 18 months of experience and coaching with the player being a better prospect. Where were Kline and Devey last year at this time.

This is the roster I am keeping personally:

LT- Solder
LG- Mankins, Kline
OC- Connolly, Stork
RG- Cannon, Halapio
RT- Vollmer, Fleming

I do not think Wendell would even get signed if he was cut so he could be on the shadow roster. The NFL is a young mans game, you consistently advocate for veterans which is fine to each their own but of the veterans in recent years how many have panned out? Andre Carter, maybe Tommy Kelly. Now how many have failed.

Every assertion MG made about the posts YOU made are 100% accurate.The above post is just one example. I can post all of the posts you made that prove MG's point if need be.

Man you must have some free time. Should I expect that you will also be manning up and responding to one of the PMs tonight also? I'm just wondering because if you can do this for public consumption when it had nothing to do with you I have to assume you aren't just desperate for attention and are you going to respond in private as well.

I'm not sure why you ever interact with me in a thread because every time I will announce that you are just seeking attention and do not have the fortitude to even respond to a PM. So keep quoting me or inserting yourself into my discussions, I like outing you it makes me laugh, that must be why they call you Joker.