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Israel Is Raising Hell

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Be careful how you address this, they are waiting in the wings to call you an Anti Semite Bigot.
    Probably the best thing to do is just make believe it isn't happening and keep "Bashing America".

    GO TO THE DRUDGE REPORT, YOU HEAR IT THERE FIRST, THEN THE ELITE MEDIA COPY'S IT.

    Guerrillas who captured Israeli soldiers are trying to 'transfer them to Iran'...
    Israeli warplanes attack Lebanese army air base near Syria...
    Attack Beirut airport...
    Sea and air blockade...
    Hizbollah guerrillas fire at least 70 rockets onto Israel...
    Bush Backs Israel's Right to Self Defense ...
    Russia condemns attacks...
    Greece says Israel using 'excessive' and 'pointless' force...


    WORLD HOLD ON
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Probably should have said you copy and pasted that from Drudge :)

    Regardless, the middle east is gonna totally blow up one of these days. Sooner rather than later, it appears.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your right (Drudge) I'll edit it right now.

    The Middle East is the "Land Of Savages" Bush is trying to civilize them.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  4. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    where have i heard this story before? Russia and the Arabs vs Israel, and by extension, the US and EU.

    Oh wait, I know! Its the Bible!!!!

    hold on for an interesting 7 year stretch. But the Lord in his love is inviting you to be with Him instead. Read more about Bible prophesy and be comforted that its all part of the plan.
  5. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    These sorts of things seem to flare up every 5 years or so. Then, about every 20 years or so, they flare up into an all out war where Israel smacks around a couple other countries then things return to normal.

    As I mentioned in another thread, I wouldn't be surprised to see an attack on Iran's nuclear infrastructure in the near future.
  6. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    Do you think iran will retalliate with a blockage in the Straight of Hormuz.
  7. DeanPatsFan

    DeanPatsFan Rookie

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    It's high time the US let it's pit bull off it's leash.

    Go get em' Israel!!
  8. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    No. I do not.
  9. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    Iran has a navy and the abilty to mine the straight of hormuz to block oil shipments. I would consider that iran does have some leverage in this issue.
    Looking at it from counter attack position.
  10. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    :mad:
    If it were up to people you support there would be no Israel, maybe you can call up code pink and that **** Cindy Sheehan ask them, jew hating ****suckers what they are!
  11. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Yet you still support Jew haters? What do you hate yourself?

    http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=105139

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR2005061601570.html
  12. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    You raise some very interesting points and a perspective I admit I hadn't considered. You asked me if I thought they would block the Strait and I responded no. That would be a very dangerous strategy which would probably lead to direct involvement on the part of the United States Navy, which would lead to the annihilation of whatever canoes and rowboats Iran had engaging in the blockade.

    However it should be noted that it is always difficult to predict the actions of a madman like Ahmadnejad.
  13. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    I was reading a board on this subject.
    A theory was isreal would nuke the iranian program from a sub, and of course iran would counter attack in the straight of hormuz and directly at isreal.
    If the U.S. did it, iran would shut down the straight of hormuz, and iran has more then row boats and canoes, apparently they have a formidable navy that will not easily cave and will definately mine the straight.
    It would put the world oil supply in a precarious predicament.
    I was watching foxnews and the question of how to improve the the us stock market came up, and one person said nuke iran, without thinking about ramifacations of the straight being mined.
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I am expecting something much more in line with their attack in the early 80's of the Osirik reactor in Iraq. Send in some F-16's, not nukes. I don't think Israel would use nukes unless there was an imminent threat of the complete collapse of their nation.
    I think Iran's Navy is like Iraq's old "Elite Republican Guard". Very formidable in training exercise. Very easily defeated by the United States when it counts.
    Or perhaps even a quagmire :D
    Was it Ann Coulter that said that...? All kidding aside, I can't think of set of circumstances whatsoever whereby a situation is made better by the usage of nuclear weapons.
  15. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    Everything I have read on this issue which includes commentary from people with backgrounds in military op's, have pretty much said it will be a counter attack on the straight from a navy, to landbased mortar and missile firings and sabotage at oil ports. It will not be easy and the oil will not be transported due to sinkage.

    Whether taking out irans nuke operations with nuke bunker bombs or conventional bombs, iran will counter attack on the straight of hormuz. With a variety of means. Does not mean I'm against said operation, just looking at the angles.
  16. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    QuiGon, for a change, I agree with most of what you're saying.

    I don't think Ahmadinejad would shut down the straits of Hormoz, for both economic and political reasons. It would mean real war with the US. It would also mean no oil revenue for Iraq.

    However, my conclusions assume that Ahmadinejad is sane, and that, if insane, his orders would not be followed.

    The US Navy would have no trouble with the Iranian Navy, I am sure.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2005
  17. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Bach up the division carriers and load our kids up now. If we get caught in this, there'll be hell to pay for our troops there. We should draw back now and watch the re-configuration from North America. America is not mentioned in the bible, so we don't have to play, right?
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Mainefan, my good friend, I knew it was just a matter of time until we found some common ground..!! :D

    I concur.
  19. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    Uncle Leo????
  20. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  21. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    Come to think of it, NEM, I think I'd like to see the entire Iranian navy up against, let's say, the Eisenhower (aircraft carrier), a couple of Aegis missile cruisers and two or three nuclear attack submarines.

    The Eisenhower, for instance, cruises at 30+knots, carries 85 aircraft (most of them F-18s) and all kinds of anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles. The Aegis cruisers can hit targets hundreds of miles away. The attack submarines travel at 25 knots submerged and they have too many different kinds of weapons to list here. All of them have the most advanced radar and radar jamming equipment ever built.

    Think the Iranians have ever seen anything like these?

    By the way, the US Navy operates 281 ships and 4,000 aircraft. Do you think all of these could FIT into the Strait of Hormuz?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2005
  22. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I guess I am in the minority in thinking that Israel has over reacted...Just the way it is...Bush pointed out how Lebanon was a free elcted country..but now, with the attack on it, Israel may get a much worse government there...I don't see this as about the military..it's the ramifications that the US has to deal with...Want to see the gas prices double and see what that does here????
  23. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pats, that's the nut of it, as I see it.

    There are two issues:
    1) Is Israel justified in their reaction? My answer is yes.
    2) Could Israel have acted otherwise to its own benefit? Also, yes.

    I think what you're seeing now is the formation of the "Olmert Doctrine." To sum it up:
    1) Olmert and his ministers consider repeated terrorist action from an irresponsible state or territory to be de-facto national actions.
    2) As such, they are acts of war, not "free lance" bad guy operations
    3) Israel will no longer jack around in these cases, and has no trouble going to war over terrorist actions, with or without proof of state sponsorship.
    3a) Israel claims to know that the states they have acted against are involved on a national level; I think if this breaks down at all, we will see 1-3 invoked as the justification.
    4) It appears that Olmert's sum doctrine is: No occupation combined with zero tolerance.

    Other tea leaves to read:
    1) If indeed the two Hezbollah hostages are taken to Iran, I guarantee you that means Syria said "Nut uh!!!!" This is most likely simply old fashioned cowardice.
    2) Israel has decided to take the American lead, declaring in essence that proportionate response is not relevant in a war on terror. In the Israeli case they went the extra mile and actually waited for terrorism against their coutnry to originate (time after time) from the areas they retaliated against.
    3) The Israelis are once again going out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, by advising civilians not to be in areas they plan to strike. It won't stop the tens of deaths, but it may prevent the hundreds. Besides being the considerate thing to do, this gives non-combatants the incentive not to "join the struggle" in the role of human shield.

    Again, I think Israel's response in the Gaza case was a sharp escalation. Do they have the right to do so? Think about what we'd do if Cuba kidnapped a soldier or two. Of course they have the right to. Is this about three soldiers abducted, and a handful more killed? No. It's about laying down the Olmert Law. The key feature of Olmert's Law is that Israel reserves the right to declare a "free lance" terrorist action, an act of war on behalf of the government responsible for those terrorists.

    It's Israel's demand that they disarm or otherwise control their terrorists, or bear national responsibility for their actions.

    When the smoke clears, I don't know where we'll be. Not in the comic book of Revelations, to be sure. Squarely in the real world. But a changed one.

    PFnV
  24. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    Not the comic book of Revelations,to be sure" why is that PatsfaninVA?
    what pattern isnt being followed?
  25. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not engaging in yet another "it's the end of the world it's in the bible" discussion. My personal view of eschatological prophecy is that it serves better as commentary on the times in which it is written, than as some predictive master-plan for the universe. I think the writers of these documents would agree with me.

    Furthermore, whether the writers of apocalyptic biblical accounts would agree or not, it's immaterial to a discussion of reality. It's also been a wonderful source of delusion over the years, with everybody from Genghis Khan to Napoleon to Hitler being pronounced the antichrist, as well as a number of irrelevant figures in between, before, and after.

    Face it, the world continues not to end, per the Christian scriptures. History continues not to end, per Frances Fukayama. Reality continues to happen, and history continues to unfold.

    Deal with it. Not some religious use of it, but it.

    PFnV
  26. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    If it was about current events it wouldnt be Prophesy, would it? the whole point behind Biblical prophesy was to show to the masses God was who he said He was (over 300 fulfilled prophesies by 1 man,none of it by his own hands, kind of does it) and to point the way to his return. The world has continued because it wasnt time to end. people who thought it would end at some stupid juncture like the milennium werent basing it on anything scriptural. the key year is 1948.

    http://www.prophecyfulfillment.com/#jerus

    Deal with it. Despite the ignorant babbling of the Lewis Black's and Bill Mahr's of the world, true followers of Jesus Christ arent basing their beliefs on some hocus pocus. To not believe takes a greater leap of blind faith.
  27. PatsFanInVa

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    Look, to people who aren't drinking your local church's kool-aid, this has as much validity as me telling you over and over that Israel and Lebanon are placed in cracks on the back of a giant turtle, and as soon as we recognize that we can read the movements of the turtle shell by casting the I-ching, geopolitics will become simple.

    Similarly, if you want to discuss the role of wizards, witches, or tricky demons in political systems -- and this has been done by Christians in Europe and America -- we'll just have to talk in a thread on those subjects. suffice it to say, I am not your coreligionist, so we will have to discuss the realities as we know them, rather than your religious beliefs. These realities are murky enough without throwing in superstition and exercises in interpretive spirituality.

    I can talk to you at length about prophecy on a religious thread, if you would like to start one. This is a political discussion thread.

    PFnV
  28. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I never could understand why the USA has to constantly kiss Israels a$s and I could never understand why in America it is a "mortal sin" to say anything negative about them but I am with Israel on this one.

    America and all the knee jerk whiney liberals should now sit back and watch how a war should be fought, Israel isn't going to worry about "dog leashes" " and "ladies underwear" on some bastards head, those head chopping savages that want all Jews & Christians dead had better jump on their donkey's and head for the desert they are now in for the fight of their life.

    Auntie Nancy Pelosi said she Vomitted when shown the Abba Grabu prison photos wait till she sees the Jews in action.

    The Terrorist Muslims have been looking for a war, they now have one.

    F-ck the UN.
  29. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Israel has fought wars for about 50 years now secure in the knowledge that if they lose, they will completely cease to exist as a nation. Imagine living in Massachusetts and you are under a constant threat of war with NH, VT, ME, CT, RI, NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, OH and VA. You are also in a de-facto state of war with the city of Springfield.

    So I have no problem whatsoever with their heavy handed approach to things.
  30. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I ain't messin with Maine - those cats are CRAZY! :D

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