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Is Welker's agent forcing him out of NE ?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by zipster9, Feb 2, 2013.

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  1. zipster9

    zipster9 Rookie

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    There has been ideas that the reason Welker and Patriots has not come to a long-term contract is due to his agent.

    Not just in the past, but, now, as well. Kraft "hinted" that both Welker and Patriots want each other, but, "other elements may hinder this situation".

    I think it is not inconceivable, that if Welker truly wants a fair deal and stay with Patriots, he should fire his agent.
  2. NE_PATS_FAN_54

    NE_PATS_FAN_54 Rookie

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    Welker owes absolutely nothing to the Patriots. Sorry to say it, but this is probably his last shot at a big contract. Sure the franchise tag is nice, but this offseason is his chance to make his money. Why should he care about giving the Pats a "fair deal". I think he should go after the highest $$. He's the definition of what the Patriots look for but if they won't pay him what someone else will in free agency, good luck Wes.

    As far as Kraft's comments, its the the same he said with Wilfork, Seymour, Samuel, and so on. It's just posturing and it means nothing. If they want him back, they should pay him (or they should have given him more than 2 years last offseason).
  3. Deus Irae

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    This is a textbook example of how New England negotiates in the press while claiming not to negotiate in the press.
  4. kennyb

    kennyb Rookie

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    what would be funny is if welker is allowed to market and he can't get a better offer than what the pats are offering. That's the only way he stays, IMO. I don't think he's worth as much as he thinks he is.
  5. zipster9

    zipster9 Rookie

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  6. AndyJohnson

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    Welker is going to make the best decision for Welker.
    Part of that decision is knowing that if he doesnt sign an extension he is subject to being tagged and increasing the injury risk of never getting that final contract.
    Another part of it is that it is a real consideration about how much he values being on this team, winning, playing with Brady, being coached by BB, etc.
    No doubt there are some players who wouldn't trade any money for anything else, and will only go to the highest bidder. But there are others who will trade millions for those other benefits.
    We don't know, and can't even pretend to know, how Welker views that.
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course since they just don't speak on the topic, they aren't really 'claiming not to negotiate in the press'.
  8. Deus Irae

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  9. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rookie

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    No the Patriots are forcing him out if he doesn't accept a contract on their terms, which is fine by me. Can't kill your cap for a slot receiver.
  10. Raymond

    Raymond Rookie

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    That would be very risky for the Pats imo. When you are talking about 31 other teams, there is a real good chance one or more of them will value that specific player/position greater. This season there are a few teams awash in excess cap money. Browns, Bengals etc.
  11. Zeus

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    To be fair, Belichick never discusses contracts himself and he can tell Reese and Caserio to do likewise. Unfortunately, he can't very well tell Mr. Robert Kraft to put a sock in it ...
  12. Deus Irae

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    Sure, and I wasn't saying it was an evil thing or anything. It's just what they do.
  13. Rob0729

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    Here is the exact quote from Kraft:

    Kraft: Lawyers, agents may 'mess up' Welker deal

    Seems that Kraft is stating that the financial side of the negotiations can screw up a deal between two parties where both sides want to get a deal done and BOTH SIDES need to manage their negotiators to not let the deal go south.

    This is not a case of Kraft negotiating through the media or him blaming Welker's agent for not getting a deal done. It is clearly a case of Kraft just stating that the problem with these types of negotiations are that even when both sides want to get a deal done and it seems like a perfect marriage, they can go south when lawyers and agents get involved and start fighting over all the fine details and it is the responsibility of both parties to not let the deal go south on these fine points.

    Kraft talks this way all the time. He said the same thing about the CBA negotiations when he said he wanted to get the lawyers out of the room and let both sides to discuss this rationally. Kraft doesn't seem to like lawyers (which agents are typically or at least they serve the same function).

    There is no story here. This is typical Bob Kraft speak. He seems to say this about every negotiation he is a part of. Again, he just seems like a guy who would rather negotiate deals between the two parties and leave the lawyers out of the process. He just seems anti-lawyer.
  14. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    We have absolutely no way of knowing what advice Welker's agent is giving him but we do know that his ethical obligation as an agent is to get him the best deal possible, and at a bare minimum one that reflects his market value, neither of which the Patriots are likely to do. Regardless of what the Welker haters in this forum claim the reality is that his production puts him in rare air for any NFL player, as there are only one or two WR's in the NFL who have produced the way Welker has, and those receivers have contracts worth over 120 million. The Patriots aren't going to pay Welker that kind of money nor should they as those contracts were 2nd contracts for WR's who could well end up in the HOF when all is said and done. Welker is on his 3rd contract and that changes the length of any deal and pretty much ensures that he won't see the kind of mega deal those players received. That doesn't mean however that the Patriots have a right to offer him a deal that is so far below market value as to make it absurd on its face and expect him to take it, which is what their reported offer to him really was, and Kraft's stance apparently is. Offering him 1/10th of what Johnson and Fitzgerald received is not negotiating in any kind of good faith, and Welker's agent would have been grossly negligent to advise him to take that deal, or anything remotely in that ballpark. And if the Patriots make a similar offer this offseason then Welker's agent is once again going to be obliged to recommend free agency to him, and for Kraft to suggest that it's the agent who is causing the problem is really ludicrous, it is the Patriots desire to get a great player at well below market value that is the problem, not the recommendations of the agent.

    Ultimately the Patriots are going to have to move for this to get done. i believe Welker really wants to be in NE and finish his career here, and if the Patriots come up with any kind of reasonable offer that will get done. whether or not they will be willing to do spo remains the question, but what isn't in question is that Welker has more than earned it in every way. he is the most productive, most reliable, most durable, and toughest player the Patriots have ever had had the position and there is absolutely no indication that is going to drop off any time soon. if the Patriots are willing to go around 4 years and 30 million I think it will get done, and it will be a steal for the Patriots, if they want to stay at less than for or under 20 million then Welker should leave for the best deal he can get, and that would be a huge blow to their hopes of winning any more rings before Brady hangs them up.
  15. PATSNUTme

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    Welker hired his agent and can fire his agent if the thinks the agent is not getting him what he wants.
    If the agent is the road block for Welker getting a deal to stay here, and that is what Welker wants, he can get a new agent.
  16. mgteich

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    Yes, if Welker doesn't take the patriot offer before free agency, he is subject to being tagged.
    He will then have gotten his $22M over 2 years instead of three. I don't think that the patriot "long" term contract before free agency will be appealing enough for him to sign and not try to get a better deal elsewhere.

    Also, as much as we all want Welker, I don't think that we will franchise him. We need the money for free agency.

  17. Rob0729

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    BTW, Welker's agent is David Dunn who has/had a lot of current and former Patriots players on his roster. The Pats have done tons of deals with him including Aaron Hernandez's deal last offseason, Brian Waters' contract, and rookie contracts for Mesko, Mallett, Dennard, Bequette, and Solder.

    I think this is the media just spinning an innocuous quote into something it isn't. I seriously doubt Kraft would call out Dunn specifically since he has and will do a lot deals with him.
  18. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    It doesn't matter who he hires as an agent, no agent could ethically recommend that Welker take the offer the Patriots reportedly put on the table last offseason, it was way too far below market value for them to be able to do so. Brady's agent has made numerous deals with the Patriots but if his deal was up this offseason and they asked him to recommend a 5 million dollar a year deal to Brady for the next 3 years he would have no choice but to reject it and tell Brady to go elsewhere.
  19. goheels22002

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    They can't kill their cap for any player. The Patriots know Welker's not going to get or sign a franchise tender, so what's left? It would be irresponsible for Welker's agent not to test the market and give his client the opportunity to select the best option.

    The best option may be to leave, or to take less from the Patriots if his best deal is with a terrible team with a terrible quarterback situation, like, maybe, the New York Jets or the Jacksonville Jaguars.

    My guess is that this deal gets done sooner rather than later. Welker will not last long in free agency, so the market for his services will become clear by the 20th of March after the 2012 contract year ends on March 14.
  20. mgteich

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    Personally, I don't think that Welker will accept less than sixteen million guaranteed on a 2 or 3 year deal. And, I don't think that the patriots will give him that. As was the case last year, we'll know before free agency begins. Either Welker will be franchised or he won't. And if he is franchised, he is unlikely to sign a "long" term contract with us or anyone. Also, I don't think that Welker will sign the franchise contract before he has to this time.

    I think that a one year deal works for the patriots. I suspect that Belichick may disagree.

    With regard to his agent, he has an agent with excellent relationships with the team. That is NOT the issue.

    It is as it was last year, how much more than the franchise tag should the team guarantee to Welker? And how many years should Welker give for that guarantee.
  21. PATSNUTme

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    Agents can recommend all they want. It's up to the client to decide if he wants to stay in a certain place and take a deal that's offers. The agent does not have the final say, the client does.

    So the answer to the question is only Welker can "force" himself out of NE by not taking the best and final offer by the Patriots.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  22. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    Actually they can't. Agents are hired for legal/contractual advice and have ethical obligations to their clients, recommending a deal that is far below market value is a failure to provide the best counsel and a violation of their ethical obligations.

    Patriot fans, like many sports fans, want their players to sacrifice everything for the team and are pretty much irrational when they won't do so. Welker was 100% in the right to reject that reported offer and he would be 100% right if to do so again if the terms are in line with what they reportedly offered last offseason. If the Patriots offer 2-16 then they are the ones "forcing" welker to look elsewhere, not the other way around. People can try to rationalize that any way they want but they are going to look ridiculous arguing that he is worth 1/10th of what Johnson and Fitzgerald got.
  23. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    I do agree that the player can reject the agent's counsel and take whatever they want to take from the team. Welker can accept a 2-16 deal from the Patriots if he chooses to do so. He would be making a huge mistake given that they have to give him 12 for just 1 but he could do so.
  24. FourierSeries

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    I actually hope he doesn't return. That would leave enough cap space for the Pats to go after WR with more talent. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate everything Wes has done for the team. But I think it's time to move on.
  25. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    You must know something everyone else doesn't because my understanding is that both Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are under contract and going nowhere any time soon.
  26. patsinthesnow

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    The Pats arent dumb enough to franchise a player 2 years in a row, having Welker cause a 12 million cap hit for next season. Why end up paying him two years at 22 million, thats awful. If Welker won't sign what the pats offer, then see ya, he's not worth 12 million.
  27. RayClay

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    That's fair, at least as far as Kraft goes. Of course I doubt they have Kraft doing the negotiations. When he was more involved, everybody got candy, not just the star QB, but the busto linemen in front of him.

    I don't mind this really, it could be calculated by management. They failed to hammer it out last time, so this indicates, to me at least, that there's negotiations going on.
  28. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    How would people on this forum feel about 3 years 21 million guaranteed? Fair deal?
  29. Deus Irae

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    I don't mind it either, as long as the team doesn't get its dander up when players and agents do the same thing.
  30. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I agree with this. Welker is in the perfect place for him. Other teams would not use him as much and therefore should not be willing to pay him as much as his stats claim he might merit.
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