Is Vrabel worth $5M?

[nashvillepatsfan]

green can also backup brady, but just like backing up warren, he has never done it

ummm, Are you saying that Green has never lined up at LE? cuz he has, a few times

 

[tanked_as_usual]

ummm, Are you saying that Green has never lined up at LE? cuz he has, a few times

he has out of a lack of other options, but he's behind both wright and smith for LE

its not a regular part of the plan.....been that way ever since wright has been here

the point is that putting 5M of cap space into what he does is poor value

 

[tanked_as_usual]

If the stars align and some other stuff happens, yeah.....

now here's some real football talk for you.........must be a scientologist

 

[Clonamery]

now here's some real football talk for you.........must be a scientologist

Hey, you're just as much of a wise ass......

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Are you claiming that Green has never subbed in for Warren on 3rd down, or spelled him for a tweak? As for replacing him as a starter, Warren's only missed one game in his career prior to this season, so it's not as if your argument has any real merit that can be noted over any long period of time.

never is a mighty strong word.........he probably had to when wright was down before smith got here, but as long as those 2 have been available, green does not play LE......
again, the point is that 5M is alot to tie up on a situational guy like green

No, what's lame is you thinking you know what Belichick was thinking when it runs counter to the actual data. Please list all the myriad players that Belichick has re-signed, to a multi-million dollar contract based upon one game.

when did I say I knew what belichick was thinking? making crap up is pretty lame

1.) Colvin had been shelved during the season before, as opposed to being able to play through the injury

some injuries you can't play through.....just ask adalius thomas ...... or tom brady

2.) Colvin was clearly not ready to play this summer, since he couldn't make it onto a team. The Texans signed him to be a pass rushing specialist, and he was not 'ready' enough to make their team.

that will happen when you have mario williams

3.) Woods was doing fine before getting hurt himself. Is your claim going to be that Colvin would have avoided injury?

if you think so........I thought he sucked

I'm assuming nothing other than Miguel's essential accuracy with his salary cap page. I took Miguel's numbers and /used them.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2009 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

If you think Miguel is wrong, feel free to take it up with him.

miguel isn't wrong, but if you read everything, he says its a presumption that he hit the escalator

 

[Deus Irae]

never is a mighty strong word.........he probably had to when wright was down before smith got here, but as long as those 2 have been available, green does not play LE......
again, the point is that 5M is alot to tie up on a situational guy like green

Again, before this past season, Warren had only missed one game in his career, so, replacing Warren as a starter has obviously not been an issue, and you have no idea what the backup plan was for those earlier seasons.

when did I say I knew what belichick was thinking? making crap up is pretty lame

And if I'd done that, you might have had a point. Since I didn't, you don't. Now, kindly answer the request: Please list all the players that Belichick has re-signed to a multi-million dollar contract based upon one game. While you're at it, kindly give us the evidence that the signing was actually based upon just that one game.

some injuries you can't play through.....just ask adalius thomas ...... or tom brady

Umm.... that's pretty much the point. One player was injured, couldn't play, and was not able to pass a physical, while the other player was still able to play.

that will happen when you have mario williams

Your excuse for Colvin being cut as a situational passer in Texas is Mario Williams? I think one can be reasonably sure that Williams wasn't Colvin's competition for a spot.

From Houstontexans.com:

Colvin, a 10th-year pro who has made a career out of being a speedy edge rusher, looked a step behind at the line of scrimmage during camp and never came close to consistently pressuring the quarterback in the Texans’ four preseason games....With Colvin gone, the team will look to defensive end N.D. Kalu to get pressure on the quarterback.

Kalu has 31 sacks in 11 years.

if you think so........I thought he sucked

How nice for you.

miguel isn't wrong, but if you read everything, he says its a presumption that he hit the escalator

If he doesn't hit the escalator, your argument is wrong anyway, because you're arguing his number as if he did. If he didn't hit it, his number would be lower and your argument still wouldn't hold water.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Hey, you're just as much of a wise ass......

difference is that I don't initiate it

 

[Clonamery]

difference is that I don't initiate it

Yeah, you do but I wasn't saying it's a bad thing. And I don't see where I was displaying Scientology notions.....I'd stick with football.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Again, before this past season, Warren had only missed one game in his career, so, replacing Warren as a starter has obviously not been an issue, and you have no idea what the backup plan was for those earlier seasons..

the plan? did anyone say what the plan was? all I have to go by is what ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the field........and the instances of mike wright being in there while green was sitting on the sideline......in all 3 spots

And if I'd done that, you might have had a point. Since I didn't, you don't. Now, kindly answer the request: Please list all the players that Belichick has re-signed to a multi-million dollar contract based upon one game. While you're at it, kindly give us the evidence that the signing was actually based upon just that one game..

see......it's request like this that make you such a dork......I've already explained why they signed green ....... stop being such a literal twit

Umm.... that's pretty much the point. One player was injured, couldn't play, and was not able to pass a physical, while the other player was still able to play..

so are you now claiming to know what BB was thinking when he cut colvin?

Your excuse for Colvin being cut as a situational passer in Texas is Mario Williams? I think one can be reasonably sure that Williams wasn't Colvin's competition for a spot.

From Houstontexans.com:



Kalu has 31 sacks in 11 years. .

and given the texans play a 4-3, it is not suprising that kalu was their choice

How nice for you..

isn't it? beats the hell out thinking he was any good

If he doesn't hit the escalator, your argument is wrong anyway, because you're arguing his number as if he did. If he didn't hit it, his number would be lower and your argument still wouldn't hold water.

either way, for the next year, I believe the pats can head in a better direction then vrabel and green...........simple as that......

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Yeah, you do but I wasn't saying it's a bad thing. And I don't see where I was displaying Scientology notions.....I'd stick with football.

you would, but you don't..........and what's with the astronomy?

 

[Synovia]

If the stars align and some other stuff happens, yeah.....

I'm not sure either player is better than replacement level. Honestly.

 

[PatsAttack]

Cassel will tie up that money untill the end of free agency. 14.5 of the available 19

Vrable is 34 and is going to make 5 mill

Green will make 4.5 mill

Money can be spent better in free agency if one of these two patriots are cut. The CBA is up after next season so I would say cut them take the hit, and sign what you can in free agency.

Bart Scott next to Mayo

Jordan Gross at Tackle

Dunta Robinson, who was widely considered to be in the upper tear of corners before his injury.

Julius Peppers is free.

Re-sign James Sanders.

That 14.5 will have to come off the books before the draft because the Pats have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. If they trade Cassel prior to the draft this would free up all that money to sign at least 6 Picks in the first 3 rounds. Not to mention any other free agent still availible after the draft.

 

[Miguel]

on the other hand, there are guys who are getting overpaid........a player who does what jarvis green does should not be a 5M cap hit.......

and I have a question regarding miguel's cap page on jarvis green.......can't the pats cut green and avoid the roster bonus? if so, that would a 5M cap savings.......

Not if it was guaranteed. I once asked his agent about this. Never heard back from him. Will send him another email but do not expect a response.

 

[Miguel]

I mean if someone hits a 2M escalator, it usually makes the paper somewhere by now.

It never made the papers that in 2008
1.) the salaries of Watson, Wilfork, Hobbs, James Sanders, and Kaczur were increased because of escalators. Even after I posted the information http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...9129-5-players-reached-escalator-clauses.html on this site and on my cap page. I know for a fact that several Patriot beat writers read my pages. IMO, your point simply does not hold water.
2.) Green' $1.2 million roster bonus was based on 2006/2007 playing time.

BTW, I expect to see the salary effect of reached escalators on the NFLPA site AFTER the 2009 League Year begins.

 

[signbabybrady]

I know I'm going to get a lot of flames for this but try to think of it objectively. Vrabel has definitely slowed down 1 or 2 steps and he is on the wrong side of 30. My question is this - Is Vrabel worth the 5M or so cap hit that he is taking up, or should he be cut?

And then the Pats could go ahead and use the money they save from him to sign a premier FA OLB, like say a Dansby or a Suggs? This is NOT hating on Vrabel, this is questioning whether the Pats can allocate their cap resources more effectively AND improving the team by eliminating his cap hit.

I guess you were right

 

[VJCPatriot]

I guess you were right

Well I was just looking at Miguel's excellent salary cap page and looked over the numbers. And the on the field production for Vrabel did not add up to the numbers he was commanding. It's nothing personal against Vrabel, he was in decline and the team decided that they had to move in.

I think someone mentioned that Vrabel was also due a 1M bonus this season that the Pats weren't interested in picking up either. Trading away Vrabel to the Chiefs before a bonus comes due and saving over 3M in cap space is basically the same as a cut, but it saves Vrabel some face. He'll be useful in KC.

Lastly, I suspect that the second shoe may drop soon on Green as well. He's either going to need to take a major pay reduction or he might even get cut outright. The one thing that Green has going for him is that he's still a young player, however is the number of snaps he is getting, justify the cap hit? As a GM, BB has shown a clear history for making the hard calls and maximizing his cap efficiency. I look forward to seeing what BB does with the cap space that he has cleared.

 

[Pats726]

Well I was just looking at Miguel's excellent salary cap page and looked over the numbers. And the on the field production for Vrabel did not add up to the numbers he was commanding. It's nothing personal against Vrabel, he was in decline and the team decided that they had to move in.

I think someone mentioned that Vrabel was also due a 1M bonus this season that the Pats weren't interested in picking up either. Trading away Vrabel to the Chiefs before a bonus comes due and saving over 3M in cap space is basically the same as a cut, but it saves Vrabel some face. He'll be useful in KC.

Lastly, I suspect that the second shoe may drop soon on Green as well. He's either going to need to take a major pay reduction or he might even get cut outright. The one thing that Green has going for him is that he's still a young player, however is the number of snaps he is getting, justify the cap hit? As a GM, BB has shown a clear history for making the hard calls and maximizing his cap efficiency. I look forward to seeing what BB does with the cap space that he has cleared.

I must thank signbabyBrady for bringing this thread back to light...I seemed to be quite unaware of the depth of this discussion as opposed to the "Salary cut" thread where there was no discussion as in this one. After seeing this thread...you did have it RIGHT!!
Being cut is being cut..traded is traded..they are similar in getting a player off the books.but a bit different in other ways.
I also think that KC wanted him as PART OF the deal...no?? He might be finished here but will help KC in te locker room and with the younger players. Also, the injuries he has had might be a bit underplayed here...MORE significant than we all know...so his decline might be quite related to that.
It will b einteresting about Green. He did have an off year...but who will reaplce him? If they happen to grab a young lineman..we will know that there may be a move there.
I was surprised by the Vrabel trade..but looking at it now..it makes a whole lot MORE sense..what they will do with the cap space and larger moves is what is more important.
But..again..you were quite correct...and all eyes will turn to JG.