Is Vrabel worth $5M?

[RayClay]

I know I'm going to get a lot of flames for this but try to think of it objectively. Vrabel has definitely slowed down 1 or 2 steps and he is on the wrong side of 30. My question is this - Is Vrabel worth the 5M or so cap hit that he is taking up, or should he be cut?

And then the Pats could go ahead and use the money they save from him to sign a premier FA OLB, like say a Dansby or a Suggs? This is NOT hating on Vrabel, this is questioning whether the Pats can allocate their cap resources more effectively AND improving the team by eliminating his cap hit.

But if they lose him they'll have to sign at least two people.

Who's going to be left to teach the young LBs when we turn the whole crew around, which won't be long. Mayo had a great rookie year, but remember our system is based on staying with your assignment.

I severely doubt a rookie was tossed into starting full time next to slower vets and FAs, forced to play because of A.D.'s injury, without going after tackles instead of holding his assignment, that is, bad habits.

If Vrabel and A.D. are healthy we need to keep them until they train a new crew. I don't think Bruschi's good for much more than a season.

 

[BradyManny]

So, you must be older than 30 and coming off an internet posting injury.....?

LOL, well done.

 

[mgteich]

So, we have a managable cap and a need/want to improve our defense. The solution of this post is to cut Vrabel and Green. Surely that will improve our defense. ???????????????

 

[billdog3484]

So, we have a managable cap and a need/want to improve our defense. The solution of this post is to cut Vrabel and Green. Surely that will improve our defense. ???????????????

i dont know if we need to cut Vrabel, but i think a pay cut would be the best solution.

 

[PatsFan2]

Not in 2009 if 2008 is any indication...this is a copy cat league and i want Pittsburgh to win the SB and rub it in some more...to show how Teams win with a relentless Defense. Look at our Defense compared to theirs it's not even close. We need a pair of Edge Rushers in the likes of LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison. Those guys make Mike Vrabel look like he moves in slow motion. If Mike Vrabel is a Starting OLB for us in2009 we are in trouble. Mike is going to be 34 by time the season starts...Speed and Burst don't just come back to aging Player.

 

[PatsFan2]

So, we have a managable cap and a need/want to improve our defense. The solution of this post is to cut Vrabel and Green. Surely that will improve our defense. ???????????????

Some of you guys are so sentimental with aging players...i bet some of you wouldn't mind seeing Teddy Bruschi in our Starting rotation. Guys give it up, these guys have given us all they can. They are a shell of their former selves, when another young guy come in a play like Jerod Mayo...you guys will soon forget about those old goats.

 

[Deus Irae]

Some of you guys are so sentimental with aging players...i bet some of you wouldn't mind seeing Teddy Bruschi in our Starting rotation. Guys give it up, these guys have given us all they can. They are a shell of their former selves, when another young guy come in a play like Jerod Mayo...you guys will soon forget about those old goats.

Mayo sure as hell didn't make anyone forget about Junior Seau....

 

[VJCPatriot]

So, we have a managable cap and a need/want to improve our defense. The solution of this post is to cut Vrabel and Green. Surely that will improve our defense. ???????????????

You're obviously looking at those moves in a vacuum. If you restructure or cut Vrabel and Green you gain a lot of cap room that you can turn around and use to sign a premiere free agent OLB, thus improving the defense.

It's not a hard concept really. It's like trading in a hyndai for a corvette. You're no longer making car payments on the hyndai, now you can spend your money on a better car, a rather big upgrade in fact.

Much as we'd like to all hang on to our heroes of the past, we need to evaluate a player's value based on what performance level they can bring to the team in the future, not just based on what they've done for us in the past.

But if they lose him they'll have to sign at least two people.

Who's going to be left to teach the young LBs when we turn the whole crew around, which won't be long. Mayo had a great rookie year, but remember our system is based on staying with your assignment.

I severely doubt a rookie was tossed into starting full time next to slower vets and FAs, forced to play because of A.D.'s injury, without going after tackles instead of holding his assignment, that is, bad habits.

If Vrabel and A.D. are healthy we need to keep them until they train a new crew. I don't think Bruschi's good for much more than a season.

I hear what you're saying but I think that the 'veteran' teacher thing is a little overrated. That's the main job of the coaching staff, to help guys learn what they're supposed to do. And losing Vrabel alone doesn't eliminate the other veteran presences already on the team.

 

[Frezo]

If it's time to address OLB, why mess around? Offer Jerry Jones MC and the 1st rounder for DeMarcus Ware. Romo could well be in Jones' doghouse and Dallas doesn't have a 1st round pick. Ware opposite Thomas would be soo nice and at 6'4" 262, Ware is built for BB's 3-4. I'd even think about sweetening the offer with one of the 3rd rounders. Then you can cut whoever you want.

 

[amazinPats]

I'd still hang on to Vrabel. He may not be the player he once was, but we're likely to add more youth on defence and it doesn't hurt to maintain a good veteran for the locker room. I'd be more inclined to cut Bruschi and/or Jarvis Green, and/or Rodney, and perhaps we could use that cap space on a FA. I still see Vrabel as a major leader of the defence.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Nobody said that Suggs or Dansby would only cost what Vrabel's cap hit is. They are premiere players so they are likely going to cost more. But the money that we saved from cutting him could certainly be allocated for spending on an UPGRADE to the OLB position.

That's not so hard to understand is it? Would you rather have an aging and deteriorating OLB taking up that cap space, or use his money towards acquiring an upgrade?

Additionally, there IS precedent for BB cutting the overpaid, underperforming OLB to make room for an upgrade to the position. See Colvin, Rosevelt.

Not sure if that precedent holds up. At the time that he was cut, Colvin was severely injured, to the point that he couldn't even make it out of training camp with the Texans.

I'd still hang on to Vrabel. He may not be the player he once was, but we're likely to add more youth on defence and it doesn't hurt to maintain a good veteran for the locker room. I'd be more inclined to cut Bruschi and/or Jarvis Green, and/or Rodney, and perhaps we could use that cap space on a FA. I still see Vrabel as a major leader of the defence.

I agree on Green, since they could save $2.5M by cutting him, but Rodney's a free agent, and Bruschi only makes $2M.

 

[Deus Irae]

This team should be able to handle signings and re-signings without cutting players just for money savings. The only thing that can cause a snag is a protracted franchise situation with Cassel.

 

[The_Riddler]

I'm wondering if Vrabel was hurt because if there's one thing you can't question about Vrabes is his durablility and pure toughness. This guy has played hurt more than anyone can imagine, yet he'll never talk about it, so we never know. All I know is that he's one of the toughest Patriots to ever play. We've all seen him get rocked during some games, come out for one play after grabbing his shoulder or arm, and he's right back in there the next play. One tough freakin SOB.

Things even out, I think Vrabel out-performed his salary over the last 7 years. He could have made alot more, he stayed for what would have to be considered the 'Tedy Bruschi home town discount'. Does this mean we shouldn't ask him to take a pay cut? No it doesn't, I think the brass will put Vrabel's salary on the analysis pile for sure. I think losing AD hurt Vrabel's effectiveness, not to mention, I also think he played hurt all year.

The other intangibles, "durability", "locker room presense", "game knowledge", "leadership", "versatility to move inside when needed" all have to be factored in even if his sacks are down. Is all this worth 5M? Probably not, rewrite him and knock it down some, yet treat him right, he's been a great Patriot.

 

[crowell33]

We've already seen the drop in production. Have you been watching him play in 2008? Vrabel doesn't have the legs to get around the OL and apply pressure to the QB anymore.

Completely agree.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

You're obviously looking at those moves in a vacuum. If you restructure or cut Vrabel and Green you gain a lot of cap room that you can turn around and use to sign a premiere free agent OLB, thus improving the defense.

It's not a hard concept really. It's like trading in a hyndai for a corvette. You're no longer making car payments on the hyndai, now you can spend your money on a better car, a rather big upgrade in fact.

Much as we'd like to all hang on to our heroes of the past, we need to evaluate a player's value based on what performance level they can bring to the team in the future, not just based on what they've done for us in the past.

I hear what you're saying but I think that the 'veteran' teacher thing is a little overrated. That's the main job of the coaching staff, to help guys learn what they're supposed to do. And losing Vrabel alone doesn't eliminate the other veteran presences already on the team.

I would have to agree with you on this, I think the first thing we have to do is Franchise Cassel and move him before Feb 28 (when FA begins) which will open up our cap space. If we restructure or possibly cut Vrabel and Green that should give us close to 20 million before FA starts.

I do agree about the age of our LB's and I keep looking at Suggs, a kid who was brought in the league and played very young, at 26 he has 6 years in one of the best defenses in the NFL over that time. He has never missed a game and his performance last weekend in the AFC Championship game with two sacks using one arm sealed the deal for me. I think we should go after him hard in FA (history with AD may help) and that would give us the ability to play him opposite AD and have Vrabel and Bru fight it out for the SILB spot with some of the younger guys. Either that or move AD back inside to SILB with Mayo and Suggs and Vrabel on the outside with Crable and draft pick pushing Vrabel.

Now for the hard part, I think in 2010 we need to cut or trade AD as he will account for 9.5 million against the cap and will be 33 y/o. We could use that money to help pay Sugg's. Bottom line is Suggs is 26 and AD is 32 so I think we would benefit from having both this year as AD is scheduled to make 6.4 mil against the cap, then when AD is 33 and scheduled to make 9.5 I would like to have Suggs on the team before that decision is looked at.

 

[RayClay]

You're obviously looking at those moves in a vacuum. If you restructure or cut Vrabel and Green you gain a lot of cap room that you can turn around and use to sign a premiere free agent OLB, thus improving the defense.

It's not a hard concept really. It's like trading in a hyndai for a corvette. You're no longer making car payments on the hyndai, now you can spend your money on a better car, a rather big upgrade in fact.

Much as we'd like to all hang on to our heroes of the past, we need to evaluate a player's value based on what performance level they can bring to the team in the future, not just based on what they've done for us in the past.



I hear what you're saying but I think that the 'veteran' teacher thing is a little overrated. That's the main job of the coaching staff, to help guys learn what they're supposed to do. And losing Vrabel alone doesn't eliminate the other veteran presences already on the team.

Do they have young seasoned players ready to step in?

Whooops?

I wanted them to move in some linebackers three years ago, but that's not possible.

No way they play this disciplined defense with a bunch of greenhorns. Just yesterday it was "rookies take at least three years to grasp this system", now it's instant mashed potatoes? I don't think so.

A.D. is still learning. If Bruschi goes, which wouldn't surprise me, that's it.

Unless you want some freelance, makeit up as you go along defense. I'm sure these coaches can adapt a defense to the players. won't be the Patriots defense, though.

 

[crowell33]

I would have to agree with you on this, I think the first thing we have to do is Franchise Cassel and move him before Feb 28 (when FA begins) which will open up our cap space. If we restructure or possibly cut Vrabel and Green that should give us close to 20 million before FA starts.

I do agree about the age of our LB's and I keep looking at Suggs, a kid who was brought in the league and played very young, at 26 he has 6 years in one of the best defenses in the NFL over that time. He has never missed a game and his performance last weekend in the AFC Championship game with two sacks using one arm sealed the deal for me. I think we should go after him hard in FA (history with AD may help) and that would give us the ability to play him opposite AD and have Vrabel and Bru fight it out for the SILB spot with some of the younger guys. Either that or move AD back inside to SILB with Mayo and Suggs and Vrabel on the outside with Crable and draft pick pushing Vrabel.

Now for the hard part, I think in 2010 we need to cut or trade AD as he will account for 9.5 million against the cap and will be 33 y/o. We could use that money to help pay Sugg's. Bottom line is Suggs is 26 and AD is 32 so I think we would benefit from having both this year as AD is scheduled to make 6.4 mil against the cap, then when AD is 33 and scheduled to make 9.5 I would like to have Suggs on the team before that decision is looked at.

I like the concept of moving Vrabel back inside. He can quarterback the defense from the SILB spot and his lack of a pass rush would be nullified. He's still great against the run and he'll probably come off the field in nickel and dime situations ( although I still feel he's decent in zone coverage )

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This team should be able to handle signings and re-signings without cutting players just for money savings. The only thing that can cause a snag is a protracted franchise situation with Cassel.

on the other hand, there are guys who are getting overpaid........a player who does what jarvis green does should not be a 5M cap hit.......

and I have a question regarding miguel's cap page on jarvis green.......can't the pats cut green and avoid the roster bonus? if so, that would a 5M cap savings........you could literally cut him and vrabel and go after the most expensive defensive players in the NFL with that $$

 

[Deus Irae]

on the other hand, there are guys who are getting overpaid........a player who does what jarvis green does should not be a 5M cap hit.......

That's just not a statement I can agree with.

 

[j00fek]

We've already seen the drop in production. Have you been watching him play in 2008? Vrabel doesn't have the legs to get around the OL and apply pressure to the QB anymore.

you would have to contribute that to ad was out and teddy has lost 3 steps