Is this secondary going to cost us another shot at SB(merged) glory?

[mgteich]

So, we are greatly improved except for receivers running past our defense backs? You might have added that this is an issue on the outside down field AND over the middle in short and intermediate routes.

Please understand that this tiny little problem can cause our undoing in the playoffs.

This defense is better in every way than the defense that came within a whisker of the title last year. And there is reason to think they will improve, so it is good to consider where improvements are needed. Compared to last year, they show vastly improved tackling throughout and much stronger against the run. Pass rush is a little better if still mediocre. But the propensity for receivers to run past defensive backs for big plays persists. Getting beat over the top is worrisome when going up against teams with speed on the outside, which is most of the better teams. And it is the thing our offense lacks. Our offense depends on consistency and long drives. We cannot allow other teams to answer quickly with big plays as we saw Sunday. If they can learn to keep the plays in front of them, the Patriot will be a force in the playoffs.

 

[DaBruinz]

No way in HELL do you allow Manningham to make that catch, straw that broke the camels back on top of Wes' drop.

HUH? That catch by Manningham was a thing of beauty.. Perfectly thrown where only he could get it as long as he could get his toes in bounds.. And he did just that..

 

[DaBruinz]

very true, Gregory was lucky that Thomas was asleep at the wheel for that fumble because Manning scores on that drive if we don't get it back.

Why are you talking about Gregory? He didn't even play yesterday. It was Wilson who had the deep coverage on that play and it was Sterling Moore who caused the fumble..

 

[ralmat55]

I became convinced last season that the Patriot's poor pass defense is more the result of a bad scheme than bad personnel.

The Patriot's pass defense isn't bad when they are in their base defense. The coverage is tighter and they often bring one of their talented linebackers as a 5th rusher increasing the effectiveness of their rush.

The problems come when the Pats are in their nickel or dime defenses. Both schemes are just way too passive - too afraid of giving up big plays which they still seem to give up anyway. The underneath and middle of the field coverage get too loose and the pass rush suffers because they rarely blitz and, frankly, they are still not talented enough to get a consistent rush with only 4 rushers. The result is a Perpetual Prevent defense which simply can't stop an offense unless the offense stops itself.

I've never really been able to understand Bill Belichick's dual personality when it comes to his offense and defense. His offense is pedal to the metal at all times. While, his defense is foot on the brake and 2 hands on the wheel at all times. Having Tom Brady driving the offense is probably the biggest reason, I guess. But, if Belichick and Yukon Cornelius don't take their foot off the brake of this pass defense, it will cost them a championship, again, if the other team has the ball last and doesn't shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[reflexblue]

Of course, i am about everything. However to be open minded i would have to be shown that i am wrong. Was i wrong in my opening statement?

We just won a game against one of the greatest QB's of all time who had some top flight receivers and a very good O-line (not very much pressure on the ole forehead yesterday) and your whining. Typical pats fan. The game got close in the end because of some fumbles giving peyton a short field.

 

[VJCPatriot]

A couple of people have stated this. I am inclined to agree at this stage. It could be a talent thing but with Moore, Chung, McCourty, Arrington e.t.c all not turning their heads and looking for the ball consistently you just have to think it's a coaching issue as well.

All the coaching says is that if you are 'out of phase' you focus on knocking the ball out as it comes to the receiver's hands rather than waste time looking for the ball. If you are 'in phase' then you are in dominant position and should turn around to try to either pick off the football or knock it down. The problem I think is that our DBs too often are 'out of phase'.

Maybe this is because of bad positioning or even lack of being able to stay with the receiver step for step. And the longer the play draws out, usually the harder it is for a DB to stay step for step with the receiver. Regardless, DBs need to be aware of where they on the field and how VERY LIKELY the refs are to throw the flag if they don't at least try to locate and play the ball down the field. Awareness still has to improve for our DBs as a unit or we will be seeing a lot of PI calls.

So, we are greatly improved except for receivers running past our defense backs? You might have added that this is an issue on the outside down field AND over the middle in short and intermediate routes.

Please understand that this tiny little problem can cause our undoing in the playoffs.

But what is the answer to this dilemma? Is it the scheme or is it the players? I think we are stuck with the ones we have for the moment. Considering how bad safety play is league-wide, not just with the Pats, it is going to be tough to find even an above-average replacement at safety. And no team is going to trade a good safety to the Pats. Meaning we'd have to wait till next year's draft or free agency to address the issue if it is personnel. If it is coaching related... well then it's up to BB and the DB coaches to fix it if it is a correctable error.

 

[Boston Boxer]

the secondary will improve once Dennard gets more playing time. He was a first round talent and dropped to us int he 7th because he punched a cop (anyone ever been to Lincoln Nebraska knows the cops are douche bags).

I said he was the steal of the draft and would be starting by the end of the year. This guy can play and he is now getting some reps. He will instanty improve the secondary!

 

[SyN65]

If I was opposing teams I'd just toss it deep to whoever McCourty is covering...dude is absolute garbage.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

HUH? That catch by Manningham was a thing of beauty.. Perfectly thrown where only he could get it as long as he could get his toes in bounds.. And he did just that..

The Manningham catch reminded me of the Holmes acrobatic endzone catch that sealed the Steelers win over the Cards in the SB,but Manningham's was even more impressive since it was a longer throw

....Eli may not be the best QB in the league but his touch on the ball and its flight path is pretty darn good

 

[Jackson 2]

If I was opposing teams I'd just toss it deep to whoever McCourty is covering...dude is absolute garbage.

Prone to instant reaction much? "Absolute garbage" strikes me as extreme, but that's just me.

 

[oldrover]

Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Turn and look for it. :bricks::bricks::bricks::bricks:

That is all.

 

[mgteich]

I suspect the players are doing what they are coached to do, or they would be benched. The issue many very well be scheme in which case the DC needs to improve. I think that the issue is more likely to be basic coaching. Not looking back for the ball, ever, means to me that they are coached to do exactly what they are doing.

It is NOT about waiting for the next group of 5 new players next year. Sure, we'll add/upgrade every year. Perhaps Chung, Arrington, Moore, and Cole will be re-signed. Perhaps not. What is frustrating is to see players have good rookie seasons and then fizzle, year after year after year.

The answer for 2012 is for Belichick to be more involved in the secondary, his specialty. The offense is in hands as is the front seven. A boss sometimes needs to step in where they are problems and help out the staff, and fix the situation or fire the coaches who cannot do the job. Other than injury situations, there is only one area of the team that is at all problematic. A bit of focus by Belichick on the secondary could go a long way.

Perhaps, we are concerned about nothing. Perhaps, the 2012 secondary will be top 10 by year's end with no changes. And perhaps not.
=======

BTW, I have every faith that the scouts, front office and those responsible for the draft will find safeties as well as anyone else can. How many reps did Wilson and Ebner have at safety last year? Or we'll move one of our corners over; for example, Dowling could be probably be coached to be a free safety.

But what is the answer to this dilemma? Is it the scheme or is it the players? I think we are stuck with the ones we have for the moment. Considering how bad safety play is league-wide, not just with the Pats, it is going to be tough to find even an above-average replacement at safety. And no team is going to trade a good safety to the Pats. Meaning we'd have to wait till next year's draft or free agency to address the issue if it is personnel. If it is coaching related... well then it's up to BB and the DB coaches to fix it if it is a correctable error.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

My guess is the player would be immediately benched.

 

[NENGFAN]

Re: Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Turn and look for it. :bricks::bricks::bricks::bricks:

That is all.

True that! I was there and I could call the PI as soon as Manning threw the ball. Not sure what these DBs do in practice but they needed to look at the ball. Maybe they are just not that bright.

 

[Pujo]

Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Turn around! I don't mind a CB getting beaten, it happens to all of them. But running into the player without turning around? You're going to lose that battle every time!

 

[New England Seahawks]

Re: Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Right, cause they have eyes on the back of their heads. It's easier said than done, and ALL DBs make this mistake from time to time.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Right, cause they have eyes on the back of their heads. It's easier said than done, and ALL DBs make this mistake from time to time.

There are telltale signs that let DB's know that the ball is in the air even if their eyes are still on the WR so this post is a fail.

 

[Pujo]

Re: Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Right, cause they have eyes on the back of their heads. It's easier said than done, and ALL DBs make this mistake from time to time.

It seems like one particular DB on our team makes this mistake every game, though.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Re: Memo to Pats DB's... if ball is in air...

Right, cause they have eyes on the back of their heads. It's easier said than done, and ALL DBs make this mistake from time to time.

I'm guessing you're not a Pats fan. This makes me very happy.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

I know this is super simplistic but isnt the reason they often dont look back due to them trying to make up the separation that has occured? So would it not be more an issue of hip movement or just lack of speed than it is smarts? I did see a burst and quickness from Dennard that I havent seen in a while from pat DBs