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Is the White House duping the Christian Evangelicals????

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Couple of things coming across this AM, regarding how the White House Crew is using the evangelical christian base. Do not know much about Kuo, but find Tucker Carlson's bit intriguing if not surprising...

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15228489/
    More than five years after President Bush created the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, the former second-in-command of that office is going public with an insider’s tell-all account that portrays an office used almost exclusively to win political points with both evangelical Christians and traditionally Democratic minorities.

    Kuo, who has complained publicly in the past about the funding shortfalls, goes several steps further in his new book.

    He says some of the nation’s most prominent evangelical leaders were known in the office of presidential political strategist Karl Rove as “the nuts.â€

    “National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as ‘ridiculous,’ ‘out of control,’ and just plain ‘goofy,’†Kuo writes.

    More seriously, Kuo alleges that then-White House political affairs director Ken Mehlman knowingly participated in a scheme to use the office, and taxpayer funds, to mount ostensibly “nonpartisan†events that were, in reality, designed with the intent of mobilizing religious voters in 20 targeted races
    .

    Tucker Carlson also weighs in on this subject:

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/10/tucker-carlson-to-evangelicals-duped/

    CARLSON: It goes deeper than that though. The deep truth is that the elites in the Republican Party have pure contempt for the evangelicals who put their party in power. Everybody in…

    MATTHEWS: How do you know that? How do you know that?

    CARLSON: Because I know them. Because I grew up with them. Because I live with them. They live on my street. Because I live in Washington, and I know that everybody in our world has contempt for the evangelicals. And the evangelicals know that, and they're beginning to learn that their own leaders sort of look askance at them and don't share their values.

    MATTHEWS: So this gay marriage issue and other issues related to the gay lifestyle are simply tools to get elected?

    CARLSON: That's exactly right. It's pandering to the base in the most cynical way, and the base is beginning to figure it out
     
  2. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Bush Exposed Exploiting His Base

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15228489/

    The nuts he was referring to are Dobson, Falwell, and Robertson, and the other evangelicals of course. And this may be the only time I have ever agreed with Rove. When they spin this, Im sure they will claim Rove was referring to the poker slang use of the term- as in, these guys are "the winning hand!"

    Ouch. Sucks to be a fundie in America. You were suckered, just like the rest of his clan.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find it is interesting, Tucker Carlson one of his greatest apologists, has taken this stand...
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Entitled “Tempting Faith,†the book is not scheduled for release until Oct. 16, but MSNBC’s “Countdown with Keith Olbermann†has obtained a copy.

    Wow, how surprising. An anti-King George book coming out right before the election. Amazing. This guy was so concerned that he waited till 3 years after he left the Administration to release his "inside" information. People like these make me laugh. I'm always skeptical of people who are never heard in the news, then all of a sudden are on every talk show proclaiming their disdain, while really just doing the rounds to promote a conveniently timed book. Cha-Ching! Anyhow, what's really surprising in any of this? So the Admin started a faith based initiative, gave funding to faith groups, shook hands and put on a happy face to get their votes, then whispered when they were gone about how scary these loons really are. I thought that was politics 101?

    BTW, Tucker Carlson is aweful. Oderman & Carlson might be the two news guys I least like. Gretta just doesn't do much for me for unexplanable reasons, I never watch her show. Lou Dobbs zzzzzzzzzz. Wolf is ok, I'll watch, although his voice never changes pitch and it sometimes sounds like a record player, but he does get good interviews. Anderson Cooper is cool. O'Rielly is a propogandist, but he does make some good points if you read between the garbage. Hannity and Combs is good because its a lefty and a righty, fair play. I like Chris Mathews, he tries to be unbiased, and does a fair job, although he was a Jimmy Carter worker so you have to keep that in mind. I like the last 20 minutes of Britte Hume. I enjoy it when multiple intelligent people quietly discuss topical issues (Fred Barnes aside). Gibson/Cavuto/Zahn/Abrams incomplete. I don't really watch enough of them. Who have I missed?
     
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Does this mean that all the lefties and their conspiracy theories about Bush creating a theoracy were BS?
     
  7. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats a good point. Apparently, the theocracy is unintended, although his base thinks its on the way. Have they passed the gay marriage amendment yet? Abolished abortion? Oh no, don't tell me...the fringe looney right really doesn't have any power? I'll bet they are really gonna be POed when this gets out to them in about ten years.

    Hey, I'll be the first to admit...I was duped by Rove and his disingenous sleaze machine. I thought they really wanted the ten commandments on every courtroom wall. Rove thinks these people are nuts. Imagine that.
     
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As you may know the 'Studds' dems fillibustered the Marrige amendment, they have blocked any attempts to restrict any type of abortion even the medically unecessary partial birth abortion (murder) procedure.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, I didn't know that partial birth abortions were the only kind that murdered.

    :bricks:
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While these abortions may at times be medically unnecessary, the law doesn't address the times that it's medically necessary. As a fundamentalist Christian friend of mine said, abortion may be murder, but, like killing in war, it is sometimes necessary, and God understands that. If you want to oppose killing, why not oppose the war in Iraq and the death penalty (that sometimes takes the lives of the innocent)? Why simply go after a women's rights over her own body?
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Is it me or does every liberal feel compelled to mention a friend of sorts when trying to support their position. You know, like "my black friend" or "an Asian I talked to" how about "an evangelical christian I smoke crack with"....Seriously though, about 80% of diehard libs I know do this.

    Back to abortion

    See, most reasonable people, like myself, have no issues with necessary abortions. Obviously, if I had a wife, and her pregnancy could result in her death, abortion should be an option. Rape, incenst = no brainers. My issue with abortion is the "it's my body" crowd. Sorry, but just because you are able to have children, it doesn't mean that you hold the right to terminate a life at your convenience.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would probably agree with your position if we did more to help single mothers and kids. I think if we provide daycare, health care, and better social services, we would reduce the number of abortions substantially. It's worth noting that the abortion rate has been in decline since Carter. You favor controlling people's lives by passing laws to control them; I favor using education and social services to promote birth control and give women real alternatives to abortion.
     
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am against killing unborn Humans, I was pointing out that even the most henious types of abortion are sacred to the dems.
     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    According the the AMA PBA's are NEVER medically necessary. How do you possibly protect the mother by bringing a baby through the womb then insert scissors into the base of the skull and suck out the babies brains before the skull fully exits the womb.

    Enlightne us as to when that would be medically necessary. specifics please!
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion

    Women choose to have late-term abortions for a variety of reasons, such as not knowing they were pregnant earlier in the pregnancy and diagnosis of a fetal abnormality late in the pregnancy. Once the decision to have a late-term abortion has been made, a woman or doctor may choose IDX (the non political name for PBAs) over other available late-term abortion procedures because:

    * The woman does not have to experience labor.
    * The woman does not have to undergo abdominal surgery.
    * The procedure results in a largely intact body the parents may grieve over.
    * Sharp instruments are inserted into the uterus fewer times than in a D&E abortion.
    * The fetus may have hydrocephalus, where the head may expand to a radius of up to 250% of a normal skull at birth, making it impossible for it to pass through the cervix. If live birth is desired, the physician may drain the excess fluid in utero using a syringe, or a caesarian section with a larger than usual incision can be used. If abortion is desired, D&X may be the simplest procedure.

    There's more detail at this link, which is a National Right to Life link!

    http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbafact10.html

    This article lists other reasons why women opt for this procedure: Raped women who weren't aware they were pregnant, women suffering from severe depression or other psychological problems, very young girls (11-14) who get pregnant and have no adequate support system, intellectually impaired women who are unaware of basic biology, and women who are deserted by the bread winner may create conditions that encourage a late-term abortion like this.

    As that article says, at least 1/3rd are done for no medical reason (not the baby's or the mother's), but that problem can be best addressed through education and social services for the mother and child.
     
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh godie a lie in the first paragraph. The woman doesn't realize she's pregnant, since this atrocity is committed in the 3rd trimester, we are led to believe that the woman doesn't realize until the 6th month + she is pregnant, priceless!

    As to killing an infant due to a possible birth defect, well the Nazi felt that defective children should be killed too, hey how bout killing the mentally ill or the old and infirm, there so damn incomvient. Mengele would have made a good abortonist apparently.


    Well these are transparent BS the child is pulled through the birth canal until the entire baby, except the skull is out of the birth canal, then the baby's skull is pierced and the brains are sucked,

    If the parents are killing the baby and the baby isn't yet a human, accoring to the pro abortion folks, why would they grieve over a 'lump of cells', and why would they want a baby's brain sucked out putting the baby through excruciating pain as it is being murdered?

    I would just love to know the occurance of this sort of defect I bet the number of cases in the US could be counted in single figures.

    There's more detail at this link, which is a National Right to Life link!

    http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbafact10.html

    This article lists other reasons why women opt for this procedure: Raped women who weren't aware they were pregnant, women suffering from severe depression or other psychological problems, very young girls (11-14) who get pregnant and have no adequate support system, intellectually impaired women who are unaware of basic biology, and women who are deserted by the bread winner may create conditions that encourage a late-term abortion like this.

    As that article says, at least 1/3rd are done for no medical reason (not the baby's or the mother's), but that problem can be best addressed through education and social services for the mother and child.[/QUOTE]


    Ever hear of adoption? Murdering innocents humans solves nothing.
     
  17. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    hello. why cant you be opposed to the war in Iraq, the death penalty, AND Abortion, which I am?

    im interested in how abortion is like "killing in war". real brave getting the scraper out to defend the flag of conveniance. Abortion the same as Normandy? ok, sure.
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Controlling people's lives? Do more for single mothers? WTF are you nuts? What about the life of the unborn you are MURDERING? You're a complete hypocrite. How is preventing murder controlling? Why should I pay for some douchebags one night stand? People need to be responsible. I shouldn't have to subsidize, for life none the less, the irresponsibility of some idiot. There is something called adoption you know. There are unfortunate couples who cannot have children, who are lined up hoping to adopt newborns. Why not have the child and give it up to someone who wants to care for it? Oh, I forgot, it's your body, or that would be 9 months of inconvenience. That's right. My bad.
     

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