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Is the POTUS really this dumb?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    At a recent meeting with CEO's of several of the largest US corporations, president Obama said,

    Obama meets with CEOs to get cash 'off the sidelines' - Dec. 15, 2010

    Obama: Get corporate cash 'off the sidelines'

    "NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Obama met with 20 prominent CEOs Wednesday, saying the session focused on jobs and how to get companies to pump the billions of dollars they're holding into the economy.

    "We focused on jobs and investment, and they [the CEOs] feel optimistic that, by working together, we can get some of that cash off the sidelines," Obama said as he walked back to the White House from the meeting."


    What scares me is that even a novist economists knows corporations can't increase production until there is demand for their products. That means you don't hire new workers nor invest in capital expenditures unless they need to.

    If my company's sales were down, we'd lay people off. That is what businesses are SUPPOSED to do. When demand increases above capacity, companies will hire & spend. There isn't any other way.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    That's not exactly true, PR. There's a different between current demand and anticipated demand. If you really want to grow, you better be ahead of demand.
  3. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    PR has forgotten about how the tech boom worked.

    Not like it matters. The gist of meetings like this is that the companies will have to get something in return from the government to open up their wallets, so it's not like it's a no win situation for the bug guys. (I had to really resist the "Is PR really this dumb?" angle here. Too easy.)
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This whole situation reminds me of the days of Ronald Reagan, no one could get the hostages our of Iran, he becomes prez.. poof, they are freed. Later we find out he had negotiated prior to even being elected.

    Consider Jan 20th there is a huge boom in hiring, as the companies come out and say because of the "new" economic climate they will all increase production.. and later we find out that this was a grand scheme by the real powerbrokers, who advised the corporatists to hold back on hiring until the Republicans controlled the house..

    Strange, we will see.. been there done that.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The man has never run as much as a lemonade stand. The more and more he's speaks, the more that shows.
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He looks like what the Left Wing wanted, he talks pretty when he reads from his teleprompter, he is the Liberals "Diversity Poster Boy" they got what they wanted now the whole country has to pay for their Racist Bullsh!t.

    :bricks:
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    You're right, but you must be sure when that demand is coming. Whenever we're in a recession, we all know demand will increase "at some point". But good businesses don't try to get too far ahead of demand, they just want to meet it, not exceed it.
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Any of us can say whatever we want, but we may be wrong...

    Whether or not our gov't gives incentives to big corp's to get them to hire and re-load is just doing the status quo. In other words, you're saying they may be trying to artificially inflate our economy instead of waiting for it to bottom out naturally.

    We've had artificial stimulus' by the boatload over the past 20 years and what have we learned? We learned that eventually, it will spell disaster. We should all discourage our gov't from trying to stimulate our economy because we all now know where that leads.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  9. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Uhhh...
    Uh, no. If it was status quo .gov would not be doing anything different.
    The game is to spur hiring and some spending to prevent a double dip recession and continue/begin recovery. Let's all bear in mind that corporations are sitting on trillions in cash spurred by historic profits made while laying millions of American workers off (isn't capitalism grand!). Sitting on that money is fostering stagnation.
    Except government isn't stimulating here, it would be private and corporate spending.

    PR, you're tilting at windmills again.
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Why would a company spend money, produce product, or hire workers when there isn't the demand to? The answer is they wouldn't. To PR's point about demand eventually increasing, what businesses will do is squeeze a higher rate of productivity from it's existing work force, and then hire if any recovery/increase in demand is sustained and warrants so. So when you begin to see the productivity index rising on a consistent and consecutive basis, then you'll see businesses begin to open up their wallets. Only then will companies spend money. Unless of course, you provide them with some sort of incentive to make capital improvements by way of tax deductions and such. Still, the returns from moves like that wouldn't be a silver bullet or anything.
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Our gov't has tried stimulating the economy for over 60 years...it IS the status quo role of gov't and economics.

    If a double-dip recession is what our economy needs to do to attain the proper balance that builds a solid foundation for future growth, then let the double-dip happen! I'd prefer to see that than have our gov't screw the economy up like they did in the 90's and early 2000's.

    Businesses are not sitting on as much cash as you might believe...do a little research on the topic and compare corp. debt to liquid assets.

    If it's not the gov't doing the stimulating here, then why did you write this?

    Is our gov't offering something to corp's to get them to invest or not? If they are as you wrote, then it's the gov't doing the stimulating, not corp's. Because they'll gladly continue doing business the way they have been.

    Windmills huh?:rolleyes:
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  12. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Indeed. It's like you don't know why tax incentives exist or how they are used (surely an "economist" understands incentives). This issue is your white whale.
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I LOVE how you avoided addressing my response to your post...you're slicker than I thought.

    Tax incentives are a form of gov't stimulus...sorry to break it to you.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    harry again demonstrating he has no idea what the word "racist" means

    If Republicans don't like it, they probably shouldn't have run an unprincipled, empty suit like McCain, and chosen an unprincipled empty suit like Palin as his #2
  15. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    No time, I've been busy. And you're playing loose with definitions to suit your position again, which is a big part of why people have a hard time taking your views on economics seriously. At best, it is an indirect stimulus. At best. And, of course, that means that .gov has been "stimulating" for as long as the tax code has existed. Duders.
  16. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Actually we've had what you'd call artificial stimulus since the Great Depression. Before then the government near-universally ignored economic slowdowns. What we've learned since is that depressions and slowdowns don't have to last upwards of 20 years, which they routinely did back when President Hoover's 'do nothing' strategy led the way.

    I'm at a complete loss as to how you've concluded that government intervention leads to disaster.
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Ok, then I'll give a prime example...

    Our federal gov't gave the financial industry incentive/stimulus to give mortgages to lower income Americans during the late 90's and early 2000's. That in a nutshell is what lead to the current crisis.

    Also, there are many economists who believe Roosevelt's policies prolonged the Great Depression. They did not lead to prosperity.

    Another example is Japan who has been mired in a recession/stagnation for almost 2 decades. No country has ever spent so much on stimulus programs (as a percent of their GDP) in world history. And what has it gotten them? The largest decifit in the world, nothing more.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    First, NO ONE has a hard time taking my economic views seriously other than liberal member of this board...explain that to me. No one from the right has ever questioned or had issues with my economic posts.

    When our gov't gave Americans a $600 (per person) tax rebate in 2008, Obama called a stimulus because that's what it is. No playing with words what so ever. So if they do the same thing for businesses, it the SAME THING, period.

    Our tax code as written has nothing to do with stimulus'. But when it's modified in any manner with the purpose of spurring economic growth, it's an incentive, period.

    You really haven't made a valid point yet in this thread and until you do, I'm done replying to your posts.

    You STILL have not addressed the points I made 3 posts back
  19. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    According to PR incentive = stimulus! This explains why incentives are added to the tax code or other policy when times are good! Ha ha ha ha! No. :ugh:
  20. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    PR, haven't you heard? Only paybacks to political supporters in the form of transfer payments and contracts are stimulative. Deficit spending is only stimulus if you raised spending to get there. Cutting taxes doesn't count. Some deficits are more equal than others.

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