Is the MVP race open again? (merged)

[wistahpatsfan]

The fact that the Saints, Packers and Patriots are the top 3 in that OL metric suggests to me that the OL metric says as much about QB play as it does OL play. That's not to take away from those OL units. But this season, we've been plugging guys in and out of our line - and its also a huge credit to Scar - but we've kept on producing.

I agree. That's where I was going. I forgot to point out that, as we all know, Brady is under his fourth center of the season. Wonder hoiw other QB's would do with that much change at the center position. Imagine the work he's had to put in to get in sync with a different guy every other week in the first half of the season...not to mention working in the rookie.

Big props to the coaching staff for keeping it together, too.

 

[Jangles]

Brady needs 246 yards/game to break Marinos record too.

While Brees is obivously going to shatter it, it's not like Brady is having just an ok season.

I think all 3 get votes, With Rodgers winning, Brees having a strong presences, and Brady picking up a handful.

 

[pherein]

Even though he's a great quarterback and is really playing out-of-his-mind football, Da Breeze has the luxury of the best offensive line in the NFL (arguable, of course). They are at or near the top of nearly every measureable category. His quick release of the ball is also very good, which works in unison with the line play and adds to the offensive efficiency.

"The Saint offense currently ranks third, behind Green Bay and New England, by GWP. Beyond that, the offensive line is second in -WPA and first, by quite a bit, in -EPA -- both of which metrics measure how good an offensive line is at preventing opposing defenses from making plays that result in losses (of WPA and EPA, respectively, in this case). Furthermore, the Saints feature the second-highest run success rate (Run SR), third-highest Pass SR, and highest overall SR in the league.
Don't Underestimate the New Orleans Saints' Offensive Line

It won't happen, but I think Brady is still the MVP, especially when you consider the weapons Brees and Rogers enjoy.

I tend to agree. We think Brady should be more in the Voters minds than he is.
We don't mind Brees getting MVP because there is a good case he should have won in 2008 and 2009, but the Manning love fest was to high, even though Brees has pretty much out performed Manning sense 2007.
But that said, Brees also has one of the best arsenals assembled on a single offensive team.
New Orleans Saints: Grading Each of Drew Brees' Offensive Weapons | Bleacher Report

So, Brady needs to be seriously considered .

 

[Jangles]

Another unnoticed record is that Tom Brady might not only break Marino's 5084 yard mark, but he also might become the first QB since Marino to ever pass for 40 TDs more than once in his career.

Making him and Marino the only two quarterbacks to ever accomplish this

He needs 5

 

[ivanvamp]

Since 2007, Brady has put up these numbers:

1451-2176 (66.7%), 17773 yds (8.2 ypa), 149 td (6.8%), 36 int (1.7%), 107.6 rating, 52-11 record

His first 6 real seasons were tremendous - put up really good numbers, won a ton, took home 3 Lombardis, and two SB MVPs.

His last 5 seasons (4, really...2008 was obviously aborted) have been off-the-charts great - put up insane numbers, won a ton, two MVPs, but hasn't won a Lombardi.

I want this to be the year that he has both - the crazy great year stats-wise *and* the Lombardi.

 

[oldrover]

Since 2007, Brady has put up these numbers:

1451-2176 (66.7%), 17773 yds (8.2 ypa), 149 td (6.8%), 36 int (1.7%), 107.6 rating, 52-11 record

His first 6 real seasons were tremendous - put up really good numbers, won a ton, took home 3 Lombardis, and two SB MVPs.

His last 5 seasons (4, really...2008 was obviously aborted) have been off-the-charts great - put up insane numbers, won a ton, two MVPs, but hasn't won a Lombardi.

I want this to be the year that he has both - the crazy great year stats-wise *and* the Lombardi.

Totally disagree with this. I don't care about the stats, only the Lombardi. I'd like to see Brady have more games like the 2004 AFCCG in Pitt... running a ton, and throwing about 25-30 times. No MVP awards... except maybe of the Super Bowl.

 

[ALP]

no matter how anyone wants to spin it, it IS a three-horse race right now

Aaron
Tom
Drew

in no specific order, but it CAN go to any of them

 

[wistahpatsfan]

no matter how anyone wants to spin it, it IS a three-horse race right now

Aaron
Tom
Drew

in no specific order, but it CAN go to any of them

Two of them will prolly be in the SB.

 

[ivanvamp]

Totally disagree with this. I don't care about the stats, only the Lombardi. I'd like to see Brady have more games like the 2004 AFCCG in Pitt... running a ton, and throwing about 25-30 times. No MVP awards... except maybe of the Super Bowl.

Heh. Well the problem is that he already has the sick stats this year. I assume you want the Pats to win the SB this year, right? If so, it *will* be the year he gets both!

 

[coolguy]

Statistically, this is the worst defense to ever have the number one seed. Tom brady should win it based on that.

Why can't GRONK get mvp votes? Unlike Aaron, Gronk is have THE BEST year ever for a tight end touch down wise .

 

[ProudestRyno]

Brees has played more than half his games in a dome and has better weapons, defense and running game than Brady. He also throws the ball a lot more. I really do not see the case for Drew Brees as MVP, mostly because all of those yards can be atributed to the fact that he has thrown the football a million times (he averages 8.0 yards per attempt, as compared to Brady's 8.7) and also taking into account the fact that 737 yards and 10 TDs out of his gaudy stats were against the Colts and the Vikings, arguably the two worst teams in the NFL.

Rodgers is the MVP, but there is absolutely no way Brees has a case over Brady.

And the fact that he dumps to his RBs nearly 35% of the time, which is an amazing amount. Especially compared to the fact that Brady only does it about 10% and Rodgers about 20%.

That Brees does that so often has more to do with his high yardage and accuracy rating than people are willing to admit. Hs throws the ball accurately 3 ft to Sproles who then runs for 40 yards. While it's effective, he does not deserve as much credit as he gets for completing so many passes and having such high yardage.

 

[ProudestRyno]

In 2009 Brees had a passer rating 10 points higher, broke the completion percentage record, and Manning still won the MVP despite the Saints and Colts both being the number one seed in their respective conferences. The argument was that Manning had less to work with and his team would suffer a lot more without him than the Saints would without Brees. I can't see how that very same argument doesn't apply to Bree and Brady in 2011, especially considering the statistical difference between both QBs is negligible, as opposed to Brees' marked superiority over Manning in 2009.

Only because he pads his stats by "completing" pass after pass 3 ft away to his RB. For most offenses, dumping to the RB is a check down. In the New Orleans offense, it is designed. Again, it's effective, so I don't knock them for doing it. But Drew Brees does NOT deserve all the credit he gets for "being sooooo super accurate, and having sooooo much yardage".

 

[Deus Irae]

The MVP seems to be in the bag for Rodgers. No longer being a unanimous MVP is probably as far as it's going to go.

 

[ivanvamp]

And the fact that he dumps to his RBs nearly 35% of the time, which is an amazing amount. Especially compared to the fact that Brady only does it about 10% and Rodgers about 20%.

That Brees does that so often has more to do with his high yardage and accuracy rating than people are willing to admit. Hs throws the ball accurately 3 ft to Sproles who then runs for 40 yards. While it's effective, he does not deserve as much credit as he gets for completing so many passes and having such high yardage.

TOTAL
- Brees: 417-583 (71.5%), 4780 yds, 37 td, 11 int, 109.1 rating
- Brady: 351-530 (66.2%), 4593 yds, 35 td, 11 int, 106.7 rating
- Rodgers: 322-473 (68.1%), 4360 yds, 40 td, 6 int, 120.1 rating

Splits by Distance Thrown

*Pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage
- Brees: 87-106 (82.1%), 464 yds, 4 td, 1 int, 93.6 rating
- Brady: 43-57 (75.4%), 356 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 89.5 rating
- Rodgers: 69-84 (82.1%), 461 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 97.5 rating

*Pass thrown 1-10 yds
- Brees: 201-271 (74.2%), 1777 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 102.3 rating
- Brady: 199-271 (73.4%), 1986 yds, 14 td, 3 int, 106.4 rating
- Rodgers: 142-192 (74.0%), 1308 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 107.7 rating

*Pass thrown 11-20 yds
- Brees: 74-119 (62.2%), 1306 yds, 3 td, 4 int, 94.0 rating
- Brady: 73-127 (57.5%), 1508 yds, 13 td, 7 int, 110.6 rating
- Rodgers: 67-115 (58.3%), 1289 yds, 11 td, 1 int, 125.6 rating

*Pass thrown 21-30 yds
- Brees: 15-32 (46.9%), 462 yds, 6 td, 2 int, 106.8 rating
- Brady: 11-26 (42.3%), 370 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 129.0 rating
- Rodgers: 17-31 (54.8%), 596 yds, 7 td, 1 int, 126.0 rating

*Pass thrown 31-40 yds
- Brees: 7-12 (58.3%), 280 yds, 4 td, 0 int, 142.4 rating
- Brady: 0-7 (0.0%), 0 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 39.6 rating
- Rodgers: 7-10 (70.0%), 308 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 152.1 rating

*Pass thrown 41+ yds
- Brees: 1-3 (33.3%), 79 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 121.5 rating
- Brady: 1-6 (16.7%), 46 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 59.0 rating
- Rodgers: 3-6 (50.0%), 163 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 135.4 rating

Breaking this down further....

% of pass attempts of 10 or fewer yards (short routes)
- Brees: 64.7%
- Brady: 61.9%
- Rodgers: 58.4%

% of pass attempts of 11-20 yards (intermediate routes)
- Brees: 20.4%
- Brady: 23.9%
- Rodgers: 24.3%

% of pass attempts of 21+ yards (deep routes)
- Brees: 8.1%
- Brady: 7.4%
- Rodgers: 9.9%

*Rodgers is 27-47 (57.4%) on deep routes this year. That's an amazing figure.

*Brees throws a higher percentage of short passes compared with Brady and Rodgers.

*Brady's deep ball numbers are pretty poor. Just 12-39 (30.8%).

EDIT: For some reason, espn's splits are not updated for yesterday's game. The totals are, but not the splits. That's kind of annoying.......

 

[PatsFan24]

Rodgers will win it unless he bombs out the next few games.

 

[tests]

TOTAL
- Brees: 417-583 (71.5%), 4780 yds, 37 td, 11 int, 109.1 rating
- Brady: 351-530 (66.2%), 4593 yds, 35 td, 11 int, 106.7 rating
- Rodgers: 322-473 (68.1%), 4360 yds, 40 td, 6 int, 120.1 rating

Splits by Distance Thrown

*Pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage
- Brees: 87-106 (82.1%), 464 yds, 4 td, 1 int, 93.6 rating
- Brady: 43-57 (75.4%), 356 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 89.5 rating
- Rodgers: 69-84 (82.1%), 461 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 97.5 rating

*Pass thrown 1-10 yds
- Brees: 201-271 (74.2%), 1777 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 102.3 rating
- Brady: 199-271 (73.4%), 1986 yds, 14 td, 3 int, 106.4 rating
- Rodgers: 142-192 (74.0%), 1308 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 107.7 rating

*Pass thrown 11-20 yds
- Brees: 74-119 (62.2%), 1306 yds, 3 td, 4 int, 94.0 rating
- Brady: 73-127 (57.5%), 1508 yds, 13 td, 7 int, 110.6 rating
- Rodgers: 67-115 (58.3%), 1289 yds, 11 td, 1 int, 125.6 rating

*Pass thrown 21-30 yds
- Brees: 15-32 (46.9%), 462 yds, 6 td, 2 int, 106.8 rating
- Brady: 11-26 (42.3%), 370 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 129.0 rating
- Rodgers: 17-31 (54.8%), 596 yds, 7 td, 1 int, 126.0 rating

*Pass thrown 31-40 yds
- Brees: 7-12 (58.3%), 280 yds, 4 td, 0 int, 142.4 rating
- Brady: 0-7 (0.0%), 0 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 39.6 rating
- Rodgers: 7-10 (70.0%), 308 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 152.1 rating

*Pass thrown 41+ yds
- Brees: 1-3 (33.3%), 79 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 121.5 rating
- Brady: 1-6 (16.7%), 46 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 59.0 rating
- Rodgers: 3-6 (50.0%), 163 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 135.4 rating

Breaking this down further....

% of pass attempts of 10 or fewer yards (short routes)
- Brees: 64.7%
- Brady: 61.9%
- Rodgers: 58.4%

% of pass attempts of 11-20 yards (intermediate routes)
- Brees: 20.4%
- Brady: 23.9%
- Rodgers: 24.3%

% of pass attempts of 21+ yards (deep routes)
- Brees: 8.1%
- Brady: 7.4%
- Rodgers: 9.9%

*Rodgers is 27-47 (57.4%) on deep routes this year. That's an amazing figure.

*Brees throws a higher percentage of short passes compared with Brady and Rodgers.

*Brady's deep ball numbers are pretty poor. Just 12-39 (30.8%).

EDIT: For some reason, espn's splits are not updated for yesterday's game. The totals are, but not the splits. That's kind of annoying.......

Wow thanks bro! These are some awesome statistics.

Brees definitely benefits from his RB'S the most with those short passes (and how they get so much YPA).

It is quite insane how AMAZING rodgers is on his deep throws.

Just for comparisons sake, can you dig bradies 2007 as well?

 

[pherein]

TOTAL
- Brees: 417-583 (71.5%), 4780 yds, 37 td, 11 int, 109.1 rating
- Brady: 351-530 (66.2%), 4593 yds, 35 td, 11 int, 106.7 rating
- Rodgers: 322-473 (68.1%), 4360 yds, 40 td, 6 int, 120.1 rating

Splits by Distance Thrown

*Pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage
- Brees: 87-106 (82.1%), 464 yds, 4 td, 1 int, 93.6 rating
- Brady: 43-57 (75.4%), 356 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 89.5 rating
- Rodgers: 69-84 (82.1%), 461 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 97.5 rating

*Pass thrown 1-10 yds
- Brees: 201-271 (74.2%), 1777 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 102.3 rating
- Brady: 199-271 (73.4%), 1986 yds, 14 td, 3 int, 106.4 rating
- Rodgers: 142-192 (74.0%), 1308 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 107.7 rating

*Pass thrown 11-20 yds
- Brees: 74-119 (62.2%), 1306 yds, 3 td, 4 int, 94.0 rating
- Brady: 73-127 (57.5%), 1508 yds, 13 td, 7 int, 110.6 rating
- Rodgers: 67-115 (58.3%), 1289 yds, 11 td, 1 int, 125.6 rating

*Pass thrown 21-30 yds
- Brees: 15-32 (46.9%), 462 yds, 6 td, 2 int, 106.8 rating
- Brady: 11-26 (42.3%), 370 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 129.0 rating
- Rodgers: 17-31 (54.8%), 596 yds, 7 td, 1 int, 126.0 rating

*Pass thrown 31-40 yds
- Brees: 7-12 (58.3%), 280 yds, 4 td, 0 int, 142.4 rating
- Brady: 0-7 (0.0%), 0 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 39.6 rating
- Rodgers: 7-10 (70.0%), 308 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 152.1 rating

*Pass thrown 41+ yds
- Brees: 1-3 (33.3%), 79 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 121.5 rating
- Brady: 1-6 (16.7%), 46 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 59.0 rating
- Rodgers: 3-6 (50.0%), 163 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 135.4 rating

Breaking this down further....

% of pass attempts of 10 or fewer yards (short routes)
- Brees: 64.7%
- Brady: 61.9%
- Rodgers: 58.4%

% of pass attempts of 11-20 yards (intermediate routes)
- Brees: 20.4%
- Brady: 23.9%
- Rodgers: 24.3%

% of pass attempts of 21+ yards (deep routes)
- Brees: 8.1%
- Brady: 7.4%
- Rodgers: 9.9%

*Rodgers is 27-47 (57.4%) on deep routes this year. That's an amazing figure.

*Brees throws a higher percentage of short passes compared with Brady and Rodgers.

*Brady's deep ball numbers are pretty poor. Just 12-39 (30.8%).

EDIT: For some reason, espn's splits are not updated for yesterday's game. The totals are, but not the splits. That's kind of annoying.......

Wicked effort thanks I know it took a lot of effort, and why we want Rogers in a short pass run game, or he'll kick our butt. We'll worry about Brady later ,lol.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

You also have to look at the defenses Rodgers faced in his first 10 games. I wouldn't consider him MVP. I saw 1st and 10 today and Skip Bayless and Ratgini helped confirm what I've been talking about about season about why Tom Brady is better than Aaron Rodgers.

If bad defenses played Brady the way they play Rodgers (no pressure, poor coverage, busted coverage, etc) Brady's deeper passes would be just as effective. It's all about time and whacked defenses. Just check out nearly every QBs stats against the Patriots defense, they look elite. Then check out Rodgers' performance against the Chiefs' and their blitzes, he looked worst than Tebow(during the 1st 3 quarters) and he comes nowhere near Brady.

Brady after the next 2 games, is MVP. He's a bigger star, he's having a great season, facing better defenses and he's carrying the crew on his back.

 

[strngplyr]

1.) Brees
2a.) Brady
2.b) Rodgers

Rodgers is having an amazing year, but, so are Brady and Brees. Brees is also statistically beating Rodgers in almost every category. The MVP is awarded to the QB with the prettiest statline. It's an award that doesn't mean anything.

Individual awards handed out in the biggest team sport on the planet. Jokes.

Superbowl MVP is the only individual award I want to hear about any Patriot win. Let Rodgers have his regular season award for beating up weak defenses.

 

[pherein]

Only because he pads his stats by "completing" pass after pass 3 ft away to his RB. For most offenses, dumping to the RB is a check down. In the New Orleans offense, it is designed. Again, it's effective, so I don't knock them for doing it. But Drew Brees does NOT deserve all the credit he gets for "being sooooo super accurate, and having sooooo much yardage".

Sorry, really have a problem with this. Why doesn't Brees get credit for working hard and being accurate?

Brees has one of the best pressure ratings for a QB for a while. Currently #1 at 67.9% completions with 128 pressures . Rogers is second with 66% with 89 pressures. Brady was #1 last year. Every offense in the NFL has a blitz drop off. How does making the right decision , or fooling the defense on a blitz hurt his accuracy ?

because apparently no one else is thinking of it in that split second, beyond Brady, Rogers, or brees.