is the cb position a lot better than we think

[BelichickFan]

Look at that list of DBs and tell me who is the playmaker in that group????? I didn't see one either.

Hobbs definitely looked like he could be one, let's see how his first year progresses into his second year.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I think we absolutely need to draft a corner or two or perhaps sign one in FA (seems unlikely the way things are going). It's really not important where we draft the CBs. BB has proven he can find gems in the 2nd round and beyond i.e. Samuel and Hobbs. But the way we go through DBs you could make the argument we should carry as many as possible and practical.

 

[Brownfan80]

Our DBs are very, very average without Rodney. Rodney pulls the rest of that group way up the ladder when he's in there. But without him we're VERY pedestrian in the secondary. If Ellis Hobbs hadn't come in and stepped up along with our increased pressure on the QB with our front seven we'd never have MADE the playoffs. Asante and Wilson need to step up as they both severely regressed last season. At least Starks is gone..

Our DBs are serviceable without Rodney, but if the front seven are soft at all this season we'll be looking at weeks 1-8 of 2005 all over again (with the current group, without Rodney).

 

[big mike]

...and the health history for Pats DB's is what exactly?

Exactly.

So, how many starting caliber DBs do you think the team needs? 7 Safeties and 6 CBs or something? Do you honestly think they should build the team around an expectation that the top 3 SSs will be injured?

 

[Brownfan80]

So, how many starting caliber DBs do you think the team needs? 7 Safeties and 6 CBs or something? Do you honestly think they should build the team around an expectation that the top 3 SSs will be injured?

Recent injury history says yes. :X

 

[mgteich]

If you check last year's camp, your numbers aren't far off at all.

So, how many starting caliber DBs do you think the team needs? 7 Safeties and 6 CBs or something? Do you honestly think they should build the team around an expectation that the top 3 SSs will be injured?

 

[DaBruinz]

I just don't see using a round 1 or 2 pick for a 3rd string player.

Drafting a year ahead is why they should look at RB - since there will be some good RBs in the draft, and both Dillon and Faulk are getting older. Both Watson and Graham are young enough that they could be here for many more years.


The key there is the word "backup". We're missing a starting WR and a starting LB - why then use a high draft pick on a backup, when we still need starters at other key positions?


And we're negative one injury/lost player away from having a backup serving as a starting WR and OLB.

Backups are nice. My point is - why use day 1 picks on people who are just gonig to be backups, when they don't have *starters* at other positions?

Big Mike -
You, and everyone else for that matter, are making a lot of assumptions. How do you know the Patriots don't have Caldwell or Troy Brown pencilled in as the #2 WR? Just because, in your opinion, it isn't so? How do you know that the Pats don't have TBC pencilled in to start opposite Colvin? You don't. You're making assumptions.

MG , The Pats were more than happy to go with Mike Wright all of last year as the reserve NT. He showed a lot of improvement and held his own on several occasions. Does that mean the Pats won't try to IMPROVE on him? No. What it means is that there is a strong possibility that they won't make the D-line a priority. Same with DE. I also don't believe that the Pats will carry more than 7 D-linemen.

Yes, BB does like to draft for one year ahead. I wouldn't be surprised to see him use a day 1 pick on a TE. They Pats do have 4 Day 1 picks and they could have more if they decide to trade down from 21 and can find a partner to do so.

The fact is that the team has question marks at almost every position. The only positions that the team seems set at is Long Snapper, Punter, and Defensive End.

QB - Pats need a 3rd behind Cassel and Brady. A veteran presence.
RB - Pats need a solid 3rd RB. Possibly someone who is being groomed to replace Dillon or Faulk.
FB - Having a #2 here would help, but not necessarily, unless he can also serve as the #3 TE.
TE - The need a 3rd TE, but someone who could step up next year to the #2 spot if Graham leaves.
OT - Gorin is a back-up at best. They have Kaczur, Wesley Britt, Steitz and Light. Mankins could play here in an emergency. Steitz and Britt are projects. They could use someone else like a Daryn Colledge or a Jonathan Scott who should be better than Gorin, Britt and Steitz.
OG - Mankins, Hochstein, Roehl, Yates, and Tucker. Right now, Mankins and Hochstein are the starters. Which isn't good news because Hochstein couldn't win the job from Stephen Neal the last 2 years. Could they use an upgrade here? Sure. Will they use a draft pick? Who knows. Both Scott and Colledge could play here and they have the versatility to play RT as well. This might become a non-issue if they re-sign Neal.
C- Koppen is a free agent after 2006. Tucker and Hochstein are the Back-ups and hochstein was adequate as the starter. Drafting a C/G type player would fit into BB's modus operandi.

WR - The Pats have Branch, Caldwell, Brown, Johnson, Childress, Stone, McGrew, Musinski under contract. Caldwell was a starter for SD in 2004 before tearing his ACL. I believe that this group is just as strong as the group the Pats started with in 2001. The Pats could use some upgrades here, but this might not be the draft to do it as it seems to be a weak draft for top end talent. I think that it could be a strong draft for #2 and #3 type receivers.

NT - The Pats have Wilfork, Wright, Thomas and Klecko here. Klecko really doesn't belong there. Thomas still has a year of eligibility for the practice squad and Wright perfromed as a back-up should when he was called up. Could they upgrade this position? Sure. But I don't know how big of a priority it is.

OLB - The Patriots have Colvin and TBC as strict OLBs here. They also have Vrabel and Bruschi who have played the OLB position before. Claridge played ILB and OLB in college so he could be used in a pinch. They could definitely use an upgrade over TBC. They could possiby use someone else as well.

ILB - The Pats have Bruschi and Vrabel as the Starters currently. They also have Beisel, Claridge, Don Davis, and Eric Alexander as back-ups. Claridge was supposedly played very well in TC last year as the "Ted Johnson" ILB. If the Pats feel that they are best served by moving Claridge to ILB and Vrabel, outside, then that will affect how they draft.

CB - The Pats have Poteat, Gay, Samuel, Scott and Hobbs. I think that is a very solid group. As long as they are all healthy and that is the caveat. Chad Scott is coming off a shoulder injury and Gay had the high ankle sprain. Is there a potential to Upgrade? I think so. Especially since I see Samuel better suited for Safety. Hawkins proved to me in the Denver game that he just doens't have what it takes anymore to be a corner.

SS - We have Harrison, Hawkins, Sanders, and G. Scott. Harrison, Sanders, and. G.Scott are questions because of the injuries. G. Scott hasn't been healthy a single year since he was drafted (Adrian Klemm anyone?). Harrison had nothing but praise for Sanders, but Sanders got hurt and wasn't really a factor. Hawkins provided a lot of leadership in the secondary and helped take the pressure off of Wilson.

Free Safety - Eugene Wilson, G. Scott, C. Scott, R. Gay. Wilson, admittedly, tried to do too much last year when Harrison went down and he was over-whelmed. The fact that he can admit it is a good thing. Not having the trust that the other side of the field is covered by people who can handle their responsibilities is cause for an issue. Hawkins gave Wilson that comfort and you could see a dramatic change in the play of the secondary.

Kicker - We don't have one. We need one. I'd rather go with a rookie than with Peterson or Edinger. This is the ONLY true HOLE on the team.

I have wanted the team to sign Tank Williams for safety. I hope the Pats sign him because he's still young and would be a good replacement for Harrison long term. Short term, he has the ability to play next to Harrison, which would allow Wilson to move to CB, strengthening that position.

I can see the team signging a veteran like Aaron Shea for the TE position. The team could do this if it felt that the other needs on the team would take precedence during the draft.

Signing a free agent like Shaun McDonald could also be done. Though he is a RFA, the 4th round compensation is probably worth it in comparison to what would be available in the 4th round for a WR.

 

[DaBruinz]

Our DBs are very, very average without Rodney. Rodney pulls the rest of that group way up the ladder when he's in there. But without him we're VERY pedestrian in the secondary. If Ellis Hobbs hadn't come in and stepped up along with our increased pressure on the QB with our front seven we'd never have MADE the playoffs. Asante and Wilson need to step up as they both severely regressed last season. At least Starks is gone..

Our DBs are serviceable without Rodney, but if the front seven are soft at all this season we'll be looking at weeks 1-8 of 2005 all over again (with the current group, without Rodney).

Sorry, BrownFan, I have to disagree with some of your assumption here.

First off, the secondary didn't play well even with Harrison in there. The reason it didn't was that the front 7 wasn't playing well. They weren't getting pressure on the QB and, in return, the QBs were able to pick apart the Pats defense.

Another reason the secondary didn't play well was the merry-go-round they had at the CB position opposite Samuel and then the merry-go-round at strong safety. That sort of uncertainty will affect everyone.

Also, if you look, it was the addition of Hawkins, coinciding with the return of Bruschi, the stepping up of Hobbs, the move of Vrabel inside, the healthy play of Seymour, the change in technique by Wilfork that created new pressure on opposing QBs that also helped improve the secondary. It wasnt' just Hawkins being there.

Now, I don't think that Samuel and Wilson regressed last season. I think that, they were both trying to do too much to compensate for the merry-go-rounds that were happening at the other CB and Safety positions. I put some blame on them, but they were only 3rd year players. I put much of the issue on Mangini (and to a lesser extent BB himself) for not managing the situation better. It could be one of the reasons why the Pats didn't fight too hard to keep Mangini.

As for your contention that the Pats will be mediocre on defense again if they don't have Rodney, sorry, I think you don't know what you are talking about. I think you have blinded yourself and made Harrison's impact (which is significant) to be much more than it is. This is a team sport and the team, during the last 8 weeks of the season, was drastically better than it was during the 1st 8 weeks. And I've stated why in message and in others.

 

[patsfan55]

If you check last year's camp, your numbers aren't far off at all.

yes but some ppl in here are saying we need two draftees
and one early one

you usually dont cut guys you draft in the first five rds
if you get two dbs in those first five rds, two guys we currently have need to be cut
we're only gonna keep 10 dbs out of the final 53

right now we have 10, so if you draft two corners, then scott and poteat will have to be cut
samuel, gay, hobbs, scott, poteat
rodney, geno, sanders, scott, hawkins

 

[Brownfan80]

Sorry, BrownFan, I have to disagree with some of your assumption here.

First off, the secondary didn't play well even with Harrison in there. The reason it didn't was that the front 7 wasn't playing well. They weren't getting pressure on the QB and, in return, the QBs were able to pick apart the Pats defense.

Another reason the secondary didn't play well was the merry-go-round they had at the CB position opposite Samuel and then the merry-go-round at strong safety. That sort of uncertainty will affect everyone.

Also, if you look, it was the addition of Hawkins, coinciding with the return of Bruschi, the stepping up of Hobbs, the move of Vrabel inside, the healthy play of Seymour, the change in technique by Wilfork that created new pressure on opposing QBs that also helped improve the secondary.

It wasnt' just Hawkins being there.

Now, I don't think that Samuel and Wilson regressed last season. I think that, they were both trying to do too much to compensate for the merry-go-rounds that were happening at the other CB and Safety positions. I put some blame on them, but they were only 3rd year players. I put much of the issue on Mangini (and to a lesser extent BB himself) for not managing the situation better. It could be one of the reasons why the Pats didn't fight too hard to keep Mangini.

As for your contention that the Pats will be mediocre on defense again if they don't have Rodney, sorry, I think you don't know what you are talking about. I think you have blinded yourself and made Harrison's impact (which is significant) to be much more than it is. This is a team sport and the team, during the last 8 weeks of the season, was drastically better than it was during the 1st 8 weeks. And I've stated why in message and in others.

I hope the front 7 creates pressure either way, so we don't have to discuss how good or bad our DBs are without help. :/

 

[BionicPatriot]

I don't care what anyone says. We have OK starters with Gay and Hobbs probably being the corners, then putting Samuel back in the nickel where he belongs. But who all do you have for depth after that? Poteat? We're so thin at CB, we NEED depth. Just bring in some solid, late roudners or FAs and we'll be ok. I'm not one to be negative, but this teams recent years of CB injuries needs to be addressed.

 

[patsfan55]

I don't care what anyone says. We have OK starters with Gay and Hobbs probably being the corners, then putting Samuel back in the nickel where he belongs. But who all do you have for depth after that? Poteat? We're so thin at CB, we NEED depth. Just bring in some solid, late roudners or FAs and we'll be ok. I'm not one to be negative, but this teams recent years of CB injuries needs to be addressed.

ya im not a big poteat fan either