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Is PATs zone coverage the problem?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JR4, Oct 23, 2012.

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  1. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I read something recently that indicated the PATs secondary was better
    when playing man coverage.

    So has the league found a way to beat the PATs zone coverage schemes?
    We know Tom Brady loves a D playing zone against him. Maybe the other
    D's have learned how to get receivers open on PATs zone coverage.

    If so, Do PATs have the players to play man coverage more than they
    do at present?
     
  2. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Phil Sims gave this opinion during the telecast. Thus I would say it's a guess and likely not right!

    It does make sense that players are more timid setting up in zones though, and thus less likely to make decisive reads.
     
  3. Silver Blue&Red

    Silver Blue&Red In the Starting Line-Up

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    YES!







    IMO...:snob:
     
  4. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Willing to bet that Sam Bradford has his best statistical game of the season this Sunday, no doubt in my mind.

    Why don't be design some blitz packages to atleast make the QB think quicker and make a quicker decision with the ball ?

    Why don't we play more press-man, play more physical with the DBs?

    Why do we continue to beat this soft zone Cover-2 scheme into oblivion by never changing and continually making mediocre QBs like Matt Flynn alot of future money.

    Why doesn't BB change a defensive scheme that hasn't worked in the recent past, isn't working currently and will not work in the future?

    I really don't know why, he's BB, it's almost like he's doing it out of spite now, just to piss everyone off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  5. hovis

    hovis On the Game Day Roster

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    It's more personnel than scheme. Every shell has its pros and cons, but the cons will always be magnified with crappy players. The frustrating thing is that Cover 2 is supposed to prevent the big play but forces the opposition to dink and dunk more; but the Pats have been giving up both
     
  6. Silver Blue&Red

    Silver Blue&Red In the Starting Line-Up

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    I've thought this before, But then sometimes I think "BB is to smart for this". Like he's lulling everyone into thinking "This is who they are", but then WHAM come Dec he kicks into turbo and starts playing Man2man, TB jumps off the bench, ralling the troops....you know, like the Giants do :rolleyes:
     
  7. mayoclinic

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    It's a combination of personnel and schematic fit. Devin McCourty did much better in zone coverage than in man. Ras-I Dowling appears much better suited for man coverage than for zone.

    Personally I think the Pats would be better off with more physical CBs outside playing man coverage and with McCourty and Wilson at safety where they are more suited to a zone role. Steve Gregory seems more suited to a 3rd safety/rotational role than as a starter. I don't mean to malign Patrick Chung, who has made his share of plays for us, but his coverage liabilities just seem to make him the odd man out.
     
  8. Silver Blue&Red

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    well said:agree:
     
  9. Sciz

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    My thoughts are awfully similar, except that I'd use McCourty as the Cover 1 safety quite a bit, thus removing a lot of the SS's deep coverage responsibilities, in which case I'd prefer Chung over Wilson. That'd leave Wilson as the #3 and dime TE killer, leaving Gregory as the odd man out. But, depending on how good (or bad) Arrington is in the slot, I think Gregory at least deserves a shot there if he's not playing safety. Slot corner is where Gregory started his NFL career on defense.
     
  10. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    average corner backs and pass rush and bad safteys thats the problem
     
  11. supafly

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    I like your thoughts here, particularly in the first scenario leaving Gregory as the odd man out, or 'depth' guy.

    I honestly don't see Arrington giving way to Gregory in the slot, but it's an interesting thought too.
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Problem 1, inexperience, our D backfield last year totalled less than 6 years NFL experience..

    Problem 2, lack of padded practices, the CBA limits the amount of padded practices.. all last week there were "walk throughs", yesterday there was a "walk through".. there is only so much that can be accomplished by this mandated method. Games become padded practices..
     
  13. randomk1

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    SEA - Earl Thomas 3rd year Richard Sherman - 2nd year Browner - CFL player that became NFL starter last year Kam Chancellor 3rd year

    Problem 2 - that's not the same for every team?

    This secondary unit has been together enough time that they should actually show some improvement - not break the team records they set the year before. We have spent more on DBs than most teams and we can't field a competent unit? It's either the coaching,drafting,scheme or maybe even all 3. Something is a miss.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  14. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    Really?

    Here was your starting backfield last game: Dowling - 0 years, Wilson - 0 years, Dennard - 0 years, McCourty 3rd year. Seattle backfield looks close to retirement next to this group. This secondary unit barely knows each other's names.
     
  15. randomk1

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    The starters were Arrington(4th year) Chung(4th year) Gregory( not even sure,backup in SD) McCourty(3rd year)

    And it really makes no difference if we have Dowling(2nd year) or Wilson,Dennard out there over the starters. The rookies might actually be better than few of the starters.
     
  16. mayoclinic

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    I'm not trying to bash Chung. He's been a solid player for us. But (1) he can't stay healthy for a full season, and (2) he's a significant liability in coverage. I can live with Brandon Spikes being a significant liability in coverage because he's such a beast in other respects and makes so many impact plays, but have 2 back 7 players who are major liabilities in coverage is a big problem.

    Rodney Harrison had some interesting thoughts on Chung today:



    Chung's had his 4 years, and he hasn't taken his game to the next level. He hasn't regressed Brandon Meriweather-style, but if anything his coverage liabilities have become more of an issue. Personally, I don't think it makes sense for the Pats to pony up to extend Chung and make him a cornerstone of their long term secondary plans. I'd go with McCourty/Wilson/Gregory/Ebner as a safety rotation and put the money that would be used into extending Chung into a veteran FA CB. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Brent Grimes and Aqib Talib are all FAs. All have issues (inconsistency for DRC, injury for Grimes and off-field issues for Talib), but all have experience and would be an upgrade at CB to pair with Dowling/Dennard/Moore and possibly Arrington depending on whether or not he stays on after this year. If the Pats let Arrington walk, that money could be combined with the money it would take to re-sign Chung to invest in a FA CB. Veteran FA CB acquisitions have proven to be solid values for Houston (Jonathan Joseph) and Dallas (Brandon Carr).
     
  17. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    about 2-3 years ago our defense lived off of the zone defense, making it its bread and butter

    most of our players then were better at zone

    starting at about last year though our prowess as a zone D have seriously began to wither, not sure why

    at this point I would pretty much play straight up man most of the time, though i do not know if that is because our man D has gotten better, or cuz our zone D has gotten so much worse
     
  18. nekromantique

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    our younger corners (dowling and dennard) seem to do better in man. mccourty seems better in zone. arrington isnt particularly great at either. thats why mccourty moving to safety doesnt really present a problem...and might be ideal if we can continue to improve in man coverage and get better pressure. dowling is a walking injury that hasnt had time to really grow, and dennard is still a rookie. pats would be smart to invest in a solid man2man corner in the offseason to solidify the position a bit. too much youth can backfire.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  19. BSR

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    Not for the last game, Chung and Gregory were both out. Dowling was basically red shirted last year and is the equivalent of a rookie in game experience. The young guys probably do in fact have talent but that doesn't mean they aren't going to make mistakes, they are, which was Daryl's point. These guys will need some time just to learn the system and to play together better. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that they can actually do that.
     
  20. KontradictioN

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    They've been burned when they played man coverage too, but the team seems to make more timely stops when they do play it and execute it well. The AFCCG is an example of that. If you want a more recent example, the Jets possessions at the end of this past Sunday's game and in overtime will do.
     
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