Is O'Connell a go at #2 backup? Or do we need a solid vet QB?

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I see his upside. Do you?

Ryan Leaf said hi and said he also had upside

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Ryan Leaf said hi and said he also had upside

He said hi to you? He is a di c k head in my opinion. I know who he is. I know where he is from (it isn't Washington like he claims).

Yoo crazee dood.

Honestly, KOC is good. At least I think so.

You really think TFB never gave him any tips? Or MC? Come on.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Upside is not guaranteed. He has plenty of upside. So did Kyle Boller.

Remind me, who is the coach?

Exactly...

 

[JSn]

A solid back-up would be ok, but one of those vapour guys would be WICKED tough to sack.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A solid back-up would be ok, but one of those vapour guys would be WICKED tough to sack.

You've got the good stuff in the pipe tonight.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

why is 2 for 2 automatically mean 3 for 3?

If I remember correctly, we were doing pretty well filling up holes in the secondary every time a starter went down enroute to two SBs but since 2005 getting those guys off the street to perform to that injured starters level is no longer a gimme - At one time that was 2 for 2 as well - Things can change and the team can falter at any given time in this league.

here's logic for ya.......

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

You guys are smoking rope.

The chances of Kevin O'Connell being a good QB are marginal based on the success rate of NFL QBs. He might, but it would be a lot more probable if he had 3 - 4 years of experience, before you find out if he can, like Cassel.

Using the Brady argument is saying that since the GOAT QB, took a job due to injury in his second season, anyone could, is truly daft.

IMO, the reason that the Pats did not sign another QB after Brady got hurt was twofold. First, it would have undermined the confidence of Cassel, and if all it took was the physical mechanics, the league would be overflowing with QBs.

It is NOT. Over 90% of QB play goes on between the QBs ears. After he got rolling 5-6 games into the season Cassel psyche was assured, and you could see it in his play. For the first 5 games it was marginal, and could easily have been destroyed, by a Vote of No Confidence in bringing in another guy. That is but one example why Belichick is the GOAT Coach, or damn near.

Secondly, if a second QB goes down in the same the season, and you don't have a QB familiar with the Offense, the season is probably beyond redemption, by the time he is acclimated, anyway. So simply accept it.

And try to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers with a raw rookie,nad others. Despite Cassel's improbable fine play, did you note how many youngsters BB pushed into playing roles in 2008, to get some experience in the Year of No Brady?

If you recall they sent a pair of would be backup QBs home, Simms and Rattay, so they were planning, in the normal course of events, to sign an experienced vet backup behind Brady.

So they absolutely need a experienced vet to backup, in TC to learn the system, for the looming 2009 SB favorite contender. The Pats will sign one bye and bye. Patrick Ramsey is but the first of several interviewees, I'd wager.

Bravo.

People keep comparing KOC to Cassel....why? Cassel had more than 1 year, and spent his years practicing with the best. KOC has one year, and no Brady. Im do believe KOC will be the #2, but there are no guarantees that he'll be successful. Besides, who's going to start if he gets injured? Matt Gutt? the guy who was cut during preseason last year, to be brought back ONLY after Brady went down. Also, to assume that a vet couldnt do the job here, because he couldnt do it somewhere else, is stupid. Plenty of players play well with a change of scenery. AND NO, I DONT MEAN BRINGING IN GARCIA!

 

[Synovia]

Remind me, who is the coach?

Exactly...

Chad Jackson says hi.

 

[captain stone]

Chad Jackson says hi...

...and so does Bethel Johnson, and Rohan Davey, and Guss Scott, and Kenyatta Jones, and Dan Klecko, and Dexter Reid, and Cedric Cobbs, and Kareem Brown...

As long as he is willing to take a non-guaranteed one-year deal for the vet minimum, I don't see the downside in signing someone like Byon Leftwich, Patrick Ramsey or even Joe Harrington (but that might be my Irish bias - in honor of St. Pat's - showing).

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

I liked what I saw from O'Connell in the preseason. IMO, he looked better than Cassel.

Unlike Cassel, O'Connell has plenty of starting experience in college.

Moreover, when you consider what we got in return for Cassel, a low 7th rounder, drafting a solid project at QB on Day 2 for a shot at the # 3 spot looks like a no-brainer.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Chad Jackson says hi.

Are you saying Chad Jackson is KOC?

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I liked what I saw from O'Connell in the preseason. IMO, he looked better than Cassel.

Unlike Cassel, O'Connell has plenty of starting experience in college.

Moreover, when you consider what we got in return for Cassel, a low 7th rounder, drafting a solid project at QB on Day 2 for a shot at the # 3 spot looks like a no-brainer.

You seen the same thing I seen...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I liked what I saw from O'Connell in the preseason. IMO, he looked better than Cassel.

O'C was playing against the scrubs while Cassel played the starters in pre-season.
O'C also was given rookie free reign while Cassel was runing specific plays NOT necessarily appropriate for the defense the O was facing.

It's the 'Michael Bishop' phenomena where an athletic young QB free of strictures gets to showcase his innate ability vs future Home Depot stocking clerks.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

O'C was playing against the scrubs while Cassel played the starters in pre-season.
O'C also was given rookie free reign while Cassel was runing specific plays NOT necessarily appropriate for the defense the O was facing.

It's the 'Michael Bishop' phenomena where an athletic young QB free of strictures gets to showcase his innate ability vs future Home Depot stocking clerks.

A stocking clerk at Home Depot would be considered a prime job in this economy

 

[tanked_as_usual]

O'C was playing against the scrubs while Cassel played the starters in pre-season.
O'C also was given rookie free reign while Cassel was runing specific plays NOT necessarily appropriate for the defense the O was facing.

It's the 'Michael Bishop' phenomena where an athletic young QB free of strictures gets to showcase his innate ability vs future Home Depot stocking clerks.

OMFG.......first a rohan davey comparison then a micheal bishop comparison..........and then top it off with cassel excuse-making

wake up, dude........they all run set plays out there.....Oconnell was not playing some form of steet ball out there.........

and don't forget that O'connell wasn't just playing against scrubs, but he was throwing to scrubs, he was being protected by scrubs.......works both ways........

O'connell will be fine as a #2..........if cassel could do what he did last year, so can o'connell

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

[/b]

A stocking clerk at Home Depot would be considered a prime job in this economy

Actually, you can't be that old if you haven't lived thru economic times much worse...like strong double digit unemployment rates.

Now, back to the thread.

 

[Synovia]

For O'Connell to have a season like Cassel did barring another catastrophy to Brady is not very good odds IMO

you throw that out there without any reason why .....do you mean, in general, it's just bad odds? that would be fallacious...do you mean O'Connell is somehow LESS SKILLED than Cassel?...not if measurables are any indicator...or do you mean O'Connell is too inexperienced, in which case you may have a point...if Brady has another "catastrophE", it may well be time to play his eventual successor. By all indications, THIS is why O'Connell was drafted in the first place, an eventual heir to the king.

Measurables are probably 5% of a quarterback's value. O'Connel at this point, is most certainly not as good as Cassel. The odds of Cassel being good were very very low. O'connel's are higher, but they're still very low.

The fact of the matter is, most QBs drafted out of the first 15 picks, are never good enough to play in the nfl. O'connel likely wont be any different, despite teh fact that Cassel is.


As to Lewtwich and Grossman, do you really think they'd be an upgrade? They're both awful players.

 

[Synovia]

Are you saying Chad Jackson is KOC?

No, I'm saying the insinuation that BB doesn't make mistakes is entirely ridiculous.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Measurables are probably 5% of a quarterback's value. O'Connel at this point, is most certainly not as good as Cassel. The odds of Cassel being good were very very low. O'connel's are higher, but they're still very low.

The fact of the matter is, most QBs drafted out of the first 15 picks, are never good enough to play in the nfl. O'connel likely wont be any different, despite teh fact that Cassel is.


As to Lewtwich and Grossman, do you really think they'd be an upgrade? They're both awful players.

winner of flawed logic of today.......something like the micheal bishop comparison

 

[Synovia]

Unlike Cassel, O'Connell has plenty of starting experience in college.

I'm not sure thats a positive. Cassel was a complete unknown. Scouts had no tape of him, and couldn't make any determination. Nobody is drafting a complete unknown high, despite the fact that they may have the talent. The chance that they have the talent is too low to justify the risk.

O'Connel, on the other hand, started 21 games (which is still low), but in those 21 games, the scouts graded him out as not worth a first round pick. That could be because they don't think hes ready, or it could be because they don't think he has the talent. O'Connel is still a relative unknown, but the scouts know much more about him than they did about Cassel.


From a scouting perspective, Cassel has a much wider range of possible results. More chance of not being able to hack it, but also possibly more chance of being absolutely elite.


Now, I like the O'Connel drafting specifically because he didn't have a lot of starts...similar to Brady. A guy who started 25 games and is drafted in the 3rd has a lower floor than a guy with 40 starts, but also probably has a higher ceiling. If you've got a couple years to develope them, the ceiling is more important.