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Is McDaniels the biggest loss of a coach in BB era?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTSFANINPA, Dec 1, 2009.

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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  2. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    I think so.



    Weis would be 2nd imo.
  3. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    What are you smoking man???? The defense was a wicked good unit overall then..... nothing more, nothing less. Romeo luckily inherited a dominant Defense.
  4. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    You might be right, but the defenses intensity and passion hasnt been the same since RAC took off. Im sure the defensive players who are gone are a part too but the loss of RAC has effected the defenses mindset and intensity imo.
  5. crypto

    crypto Rookie

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    McDaniels' neglect of the running game was damning. He was not nearly as good as he receives credit for.
  6. Deus Irae

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    New England was 12th in passing attempts and 6th in rushing attempts in 2006, and was 18th in YPA.
    New England was 5th in passing attempts and 9th in rushing attempts in 2007 and was 11th in YPA.
    New England was 12th in passing attempts and 6th in rushing attempts in 2008 and was 7th in YPA.

    That's only neglecting the running game if you're defining 'neglect' extremely loosely.
  7. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Many players during RACs time here said of how much of a mentor,coach and friend he was to the players on and off the field - Its more to the team than just being a good coach,you have to have the players like and respect you and they certainly did back then.
  8. KontradictioN

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    #24 Jersey

    I think he is. The offensive playcalling has been extremely vanilla and predictable this season. That wasn't the case in 2006-2008. O'Brien will probably get his bearings under him eventually. But I have yet to see it this season.
  9. Rob0729

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    Deus, you know the board rule - no using actual facts when people are bashing McDaniels.
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I said before the season that at least at times this team would struggle with the loss of McDaniels. I think he would have called last night's game better and several other games too. That said, O'Brien is a rookie signal caller and McDaniels was far from perfect in 2005.
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How many Super Bowls did we win with Josh as OC? Personally, I think the biggest loss by far was the loss of Charlie Weiss. The level of performance of the DC has gone downhill with each choice after Belichick was DC.

  12. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    1. Crennel
    2. Weiss
    3. McDaniels
  13. Deus Irae

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    In my opinion:

    McDaniels has been the team's best OC. Crennel was the team's best DC. As for which is the biggest loss, I'd say that the jury is still out.
  14. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    I think the answer to that is would a Crennel driven defense have given Eli a chance to go down that field in the SB and win?....something tells me he would have had an answer for it with some destructive packages that would have confused the Jints - Crennel 3-0 as DC in SBs
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  15. Deus Irae

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    The problem with this assertion is that the DC did his job. It was Samuel leaving his man that cost the team. The Tyree catch never happens if Samuel doesn't decide to let Tyree roam free. Rodney's publicly, if gently and grudgingly, thrown Asante under the bus over that.
  16. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Bull.

    From 2006-2008 the offense ran shotgun the same 55% of the time, passed 5 out of 6 times from this formation, consistently. It didn't matter who was at QB, WR, or RB. Look at Welker's stats the past 2 seasons, pretty much carbon copies of each other.

    That is being extremely predictable.

    O'Brien has simply kicked it up a notch, but that doesn't mean the prior offense wasn't already very predictable with the same plays over and over and over and over.

    ----------------


    Look at what Charlie Weiss had to work with from 2001-2004, at every offensive position he always did more with much less. His units always came through though.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  17. KontradictioN

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    I was talking about the plays being run, Mav. Not the formations. Perhaps you would be so caring as to explain to us how an "extremely predictable and vanilla offense" managed to set every single season offensive statistical record in the NFL under McDaniels. Oh, and you've already made it clear that you prefer to thank and blame the coaches and staff more in wins and losses, respectively, than the personnel. So please don't point to the personnel or we'll all know that you're talking out of both ends. Good luck with that, buddy.
  18. BradyFTW!

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    The problem with Crennel is that his leaving coincided with Bruschi's stroke, so it will always be difficult to tell how much each had to do with the downturn that followed. There was a major downturn, though, so one would have to think that both had a lot to do with it.
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    WHO CARES ABOUT THE SEXY STATS??? You stat whores will come up with every excuse why those units kept failing in the clutch, when it's obviously due to predictability issues.

    Just as with the 01 Rams or 03-04 Colts, who cares how many points they put up, they got stopped because they stubbornly wouldn't adjust after getting exposed. Mike Martz didn't change even though Belichick figured out their offense was all slants and in-cuts to WR's, and backfield passes to Faulk. The explosive Colts got stopped once the Pats figured out their stretch play. The same thing has happened to EVERY single McDaniels' coached unit.

    That 07 offense exploded because no one saw Moss+Welker+Stallworth on the field before, with a Meyer-adapted offense from Belichick, on a motivated unit pissed off over the Video Witch Hunt. After 10 games their offensive production dramatically went down as teams figured them out.

    If McDaniels coached the offense from 01-04 we would have ZERO rings.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  20. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    It's close between Weis and McD.

    I give the nod to Weis for that gameplan he put together for SB38. Panthers pass rush was nonexistant and it just looked easy for Brady once they got into rhythm. The OL deserves alot of credit too but the scheme had alot to do with it as well. It's the best our offense has ever looked in the playoffs and this was without Dillon, Moss, Welker, etc.
  21. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    So we know what the Yards Per Attempt are...

    But I think the poster who made the original point would probably question whether there were enough attempts... i.e. was it a balanced attack?

    That would be the critical information - not solely YPA.

    I have my criticisms with McDaniels as well - favoring the passing game over the run when you have Brady, Welker and Moss would not be one of them however.
  22. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Weis did far more with far less raw talent than McDaniels. It's not even close.
    Lets do the ring count. I'm really beginning to think the success of 2007 was ultimately a curse for this team and fanbase and has skewed everyone's memories of events before that year. Don't give a crap about individual numbers or records.
  23. Deus Irae

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    That would be where the ranking an rushing attempts would come in. The team was top 10 in attempts for 3 straight years, and in the top 10 in passing attempts in only one year of 3. That's going to lead, essentially by definition, to "balance" in the current sense of the word. In the NFL, "balance" is not currently 50/50.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  24. Deus Irae

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    McDaniels had that "talent" for 1 seasonm, and he helped guide that team to a 16-0 season. That 2006 team had far less WR talent than the teams CW was overseeing, and the 2008 team didn't have Brady.
  25. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    What are you smoking?

    Look at the talent on that 2006 offense, it was loaded at every spot except at WR. The 08 offensive talent was also still stacked even without Brady. One common theme of stat whores is how many excuses they come up with to explain away failures.

    You must be a teenager right now who can't remember the castoffs that Weiss used at every position, to become champions.

    If McDaniels was the coordinator from 01-04, they don't even make the 01 playoffs, and suffer some sort of choke job in 2003 and 2004, for zero total rings.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  26. ricogatenby99

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  27. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    In the 2003 bowl Weiss' offensive line (a bunch of retreads) gave up zero sacks to Julius Peppers and the best D-line in football. A McDaniels-coached 03 offense would have gotten Brady killed Theisman-style.
  28. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rookie

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    Ridiculous......how many Bowls did we win with McDaniels? Everyone seems to forget that the offensive fireworks subsided right around the Eagles game. After that they didn't exactly score at will and by the time they played the Chargers and Giants it was barely getting it done.

    The question should be do we miss Weis and Crennel.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  29. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Right on!!! Amazing how people forget what really was happening in '07.
  30. KontradictioN

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    You don't care about stats because they don't help or do a bit of justice to your argument and you know it. You said that McDaniels' offense was just as vanilla and predictable as the one we have now, right? If that were the case, we wouldn't have been anywhere close to the number one offense in the league statistically. The fact of the matter is that the offense, while it had weapons, set a record for the amount of points scored. A predictable offense does not do that. A predictable offense scores 14-20 points a game, maybe. Our offense in 2007 was averaging WELL above that. Were we in the shotgun? Sure. But being in the shotgun a lot does not make your offense predictable. It's the plays that you call out of it. That's where the 2007 offense and the 2009 offense pale in comparison. I didn't see Josh calling the same draw play out of the shotgun to Faulk 10+ times in a game.

    Though I think your reasoning is flawed, I'll go ahead and grant you Welker because nobody could have seen what he would do in our offense. However, are you seriously trying to sit here and tell me that teams didn't know what Moss and Stallworth were capable of? Really? Teams were plenty aware of what Moss and Stallworth are capable of. The difference in the team early in the season and late in the season was that defenses were shadowing Moss with multiple guys. They figured (correctly) that their best chance to win was not death by firing squad (Moss), but instead death by crucifixion (Welker). Limit the big play and you can slow that offense down. It didn't exactly take a genius to think of that. Still, after those ten games, McDaniels and Co. managed to win eight more games en route to an appearance in the Super Bowl where the loss of Stephen Neal, more than anything, lost us the Super Bowl because the Giants (unlike any team before them) were able to get pressure on Brady up the middle to the point where he couldn't step into his throws and had to throw off his back foot. Once again, blaming McDaniels for the Super Bowl loss is retarded. But you already knew that.

    Oh, and by the way, you just went ahead and thanked the personnel for the 2007 offensive explosion where, in another thread, you went out of your way to say that coaching and schemes are what make the personnel either look good or bad in a particular game. I'll go ahead and quote it for you...

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...mnf-recap-jaworski-blames-ol.html#post1618530

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...mnf-recap-jaworski-blames-ol.html#post1619242

    Talk out of both ends much? By the way, Brady was getting hit just as much passing out of a singleback formation as he was passing out of the shotgun. The line just sucked last night no matter what formation the offense was in.
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