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Is Maroney running behind a pass protection offensive line?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mesoslo, Oct 14, 2009.

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  1. mesoslo

    mesoslo Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    If Maroney ran behind an offensive line that is more suited to run the ball do you think Maroney will have to dance less and be able to just run through gaping wholes?

    Maroney runs pretty fast through the whole. You give maroney a hole a proper size hole that a running back of his run style speed and agility he will make people miss tackles in the backfield.

    the offensive line is more tired when trying to pass protect. Its a lot less tiring and easier just being to push forward. So with the amount of passing the patriots have done does this tire out the offensive line causing them to not create bigger holes during running plays?
     
  2. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I've said this before, but almost every time Maroney gets the football, the blocking is absolute crap. Then the Maroney haters come on here and say he's a bust when he hardly ever gets any carries. In addition, the way the Pats run the football (in shotgun) it's harder for RB's to accelerate through the holes quickly. In fact, these types of plays require excellent vision on the RB's part.

    In the end, the Pats are a passing team and I don't think too many RB's would do well in this scheme because the ball is mostly in the WR's hands. RB's need to get into a rhythm, and only Fred Taylor was able to do that in one game out of the five this season. In the end, Maroney just doesn't fit this scheme and would do a lot better with a team that is built to run the ball and runs the ball a lot.
     
  3. mesoslo

    mesoslo Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think maroney is too fast for the patriots offensive line. If the patriots offensive line can get off the ball faster on run plays, it will halep sync the speed of maroney with the offensive line.

    Its about creating an early hole, or else the defense will have time to react to the hole and plug it up, which causes the running back to dance a bit to try find other holes but non of them are big enough for him to run through.


    Maybe the patriots should add more depth at the offensive line to have sub packages for run plays.
     
  4. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    i guess that might be true....go out there and get O line guys that can run block amazingly well

    the defense would KNOW ur running it, but hey, maybe the execution will be there, cuz i mean right now they STILL know when were gonna run it, but we're lacking execution
     
  5. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    The Patriots are one of 4 teams remaning in the NFL that have not had a run longer than 20 yards - That says something for both the OL and the RBs not working well together and on the same page.
     
  6. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Maroney's ypc are the lowest with the exception of Law Firm, who doesn't get any carries, so either the line doesn't block for him because they hate him and want him to fail, or Maroney can't make as much with what he's given, neither one speaks well of him.
     
  7. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I hate to admit this but Tom E. Curran made a 1/2 decent point last night when he said that the athleticism of the Pats O line is lacking in a major way. I agree with this to a point. This line can be outmuscled and out maneuvered but faster, stronger players. Is the Pats blocking scheme not conducive to LoMos running style? Maybe. What I do know is that before being hurt, Taylor was running well and Morris ran slightly better than ok vs Denver against a coach who knew our blocking scheme cold and knew how to counter it for the most part. Overall, the production of the running game is below average and without going into it, there are a number of contributing factors.

    Theoretically, if you had the 1992 Dallas Cowboys O-line, would Maroney rush for 1300 yds in his sleep? Maybe, but I dont think the lines inability to get off the ball is the reason for Maroney's sub-par production. It's in his head that he won't be sucessful here.

    My .02$
     
  8. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    If the line were opening holes that would probably tell you more about the running backs not having the speed to run away from the defense, or the ability to cleanly elude the isolated defender.

    But footballoutsiders also has us down for the 28th worst "stuffed" ranking, where we get tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage 25% of the time, which is atrocious. That doesn't even include the times Morris or Taylor have gotten hit back there and then stumbled forward for a yard or two.
     
  9. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    if the blocking is not suited to Maroney, why the hell hasnt BB changed the scheme?

    he should have

    maroney is ur star rb....u make the running game work around HIM
     
  10. mcsully

    mcsully In the Starting Line-Up

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    Even if we had the Cowboys OL of the 90's, he would dance in teh backfield.. The problem is on LM.. Yes maybe the OL isn't great at run blocking but when I see faulk and taylor make one cut and hit the hole, I know for a fact its more on LM than the OL..

    He's not good.. Face it.. He's BB worst #1 pick..

    The only way to salvage something from him is to throw a screen pass to him or lineup a FB in teh backfield with him and tell him to follow the lead blocker.. His vision BLOWS..
     
  11. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    He has changed the scheme. They've learned zone blocking. But with zone blocking you either need big fat guys that can make or wall, or use a fullback with smaller guys up front to erase penetration.

    Denver, when Gibbs was there, always used a fullback (Howard Griffth) with their small quick line, and Gibbs used Justin Griffith in the same role in Atlanta.

    BB hasn't wanted to use a good fullback because its a liability in the passing game and our QB is our best asset, unlike Denver and Atlanta.
     
  12. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    Been saying this since our SB loss. This line is soft. It's full of slow, big fat soft linemen. There's a reason the only time we pick up the critical 4th and 1 is when Brady throws the D off and takes it himself. We need to get the pink pussies off the OL and get some hogs.
     
  13. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can think of at least a few other reasons that are more plausible than those, so that either/or is... not.
     
  14. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Morris danced an awful lot in the backfield on Sunday too, is he awful now?

    Reality: a RB who is asked to carry the ball a lot of times in this offense will find, in many cases, that he's being met in the backfield. So he 'dances'.

    Morris' carries against Denver:
    1-10-NE 38 (11:00) S.Morris right tackle to NE 43 for 5 yards (K.Peterson).
    2-5-NE 43 (10:21) S.Morris up the middle to NE 44 for 1 yard (J.Williams).
    1-10-DEN 15 (8:20) S.Morris right end to DEN 15 for no gain (A.Davis).
    2-10-DEN 15 (7:36) S.Morris right guard to DEN 8 for 7 yards (B.Dawkins, R.Hill).
    1-10-DEN 43 (5:18) S.Morris right tackle to DEN 33 for 10 yards (R.Ayers).
    1-10-DEN 33 (4:40) S.Morris right tackle to DEN 35 for -2 yards (B.Dawkins; K.Peterson).
    2-4-NE 29 (1:44) S.Morris up the middle to NE 32 for 3 yards (R.Fields).
    3-1-NE 32 (1:08) S.Morris right end to NE 32 for no gain (D.Williams).
    1-10-NE 41 (11:09) S.Morris up the middle to NE 44 for 3 yards (D.Williams).
    1-10-NE 15 :)22) S.Morris left tackle to NE 15 for no gain (A.Goodman).
    2-6-NE 30 (13:59) S.Morris right tackle to NE 33 for 3 yards (V.Holliday).
    1-10-NE 39 (12:20) S.Morris up the middle to NE 45 for 6 yards (K.Peterson).
    2-4-NE 45 (11:46) S.Morris left guard to 50 for 5 yards (W.Woodyard).
    1-10-50 (11:07) S.Morris up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (B.Dawkins).
    2-6-NE 25 (4:37) (Shotgun) S.Morris up the middle to NE 28 for 3 yards (W.Woodyard).
    1-10-NE 30 (2:27) S.Morris left end to NE 49 for 19 yards (J.Williams).
    1-10-NE 49 (2:00) (Shotgun) S.Morris up the middle to DEN 49 for 2 yards (W.Woodyard). FUMBLES

    Ok, so let's parse those 17 carries down a little:
    Fumbles: 1
    Carries for a loss: 1
    Carries for no gain:3
    Carries for 1-2 yards: 1
    Carries for 3-4 yards: 5
    Carries for 5-6 yards: 3
    Carries for 7-9 yards: 1
    Carries for 10+ yards: 2

    So, just to review, Morris had:

    5 carries for a loss, fumble, or no gain
    6 carries for 1-4 yards
    4 carries for 5-9 yards
    2 carries for 10+ yards

    What immediately jumped out at me was how strikingly this resembled the typical stat line for Laurence Maroney as a starter. Obviously I don't want to draw too broad conclusions from such a small sample size, but it's one more data point among many that suggests that the offensive line may be the common cause behind the high number of negative plays. Anecdotally, Patriots' RBs sure seem to get hit behind the LOS a lot more than other teams'

    In short, everything that we love to rip on Maroney for, Morris did the same thing when put in Maroney's position on Sunday. He got hit behind the line, he danced, and a lot of negative plays resulted. His YPC was decent only because he ripped off a couple of long runs, including a 19 yarder (subtract out that one and he had 3.06 YPC).

    These criticisms may or may not be fair, but if Maroney had played the exact same game that Morris did, I guarantee you that the legion of detractors would be out in force this week. Since it's Morris, though, nobody's said a thin. Which is fine--I like Morris--but it's sloppy 'analysis' and it's definitely not fair.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  15. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    when you only run the ball 20 time's a game and pass 40 time's the O line is all was back on there heels looking to protect the QB

    runing the football is a attitude thing and if you dont run the ball a nuff the O line cant get that attitude

    this is the same O line and same RB's that josh mcdaniels got a 159 yerd's a game from last year

    maroney is only geting 6 att a game if they give him 20 att a game he would end the year with all most 1100 yerd's

    so its not all on maroney they need to give him the ball
     
  16. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good point as well. It's frustrating, it seems like they call Maroney twice and the second he is stuffed they just put him away.
     
  17. mcsully

    mcsully In the Starting Line-Up

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    Pst.. I never said Morris.. I only mentioned Faulk and Taylor.. I'm not a big fan of Morris but the versatility in short yardage is helpful .. Love when he plays FB and he gets the quick hitch..

    Funny fact, Morris carried the Rock more than our supposed lead RB this past week.. Between that and not returning kickoffs, I wouldn't be surpised to see LM less and less this year..

    LM best year was his rookie year.. And I know a lot of people talk about the fact Dillion helped him out or this and that.. But one valid point a lot of people miss is we ran a two back set more than we do now.. Remember the Cinn Run.. I believe the longest run of his career.. Well he had a FB he followed and ran straight behind him.. LM is not suited for this style of offense.. And given his injury history, he'll never live up to being a #1 pick.. Especially on a team that has done so well with their #1's.
     
  18. racicotm

    racicotm Rookie

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    I'm done making excuses for lomo he just doesn't have it im not sure the best OL would help him either. Just watching him play you can see an undeniable difference between him and most rb's that are even slighltly successful. Even the rookie Moreno looks lightyears ahead of maroney in his onfield progression. As much as Maroney is a nice guy and all, i won't be sorry to see him go next season.
     
  19. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Maroney will only succeed as a 1,300 yard rusher when defenses decide to forget the run and play a 2 4 5 formation :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  20. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, you're putting words in my mouth though. Faulk is irrelevant, since he plays a completely different position in this offense, and we saw so little of Taylor that, while impressed, I'm not drawing any conclusions. I'm simply pointing out that when someone else started in place of Maroney, that guy did all of the things that you guys don't like Maroney for: dancing in the backfield, making negative plays, and having a crappy YPC aside from 1 long run.

    When Maroney was put in the position of just having a couple of carries in spot duty, which the other guys normally have, he looked pretty good, carrying for 2, 10, 1 and 5 yards. So maybe we should just acknowledge that it has a lot more to do with the offense than it does with Maroney.

    Our OL allows way too much penetration in run blocking, so it's really just a numbers game, and if you get 10+ carries, there *will* be at least a couple where you get hit behind the LOS. And I can't emphasize enough that there probably isn't a RB in the NFL who can consistently perform under those conditions: MAYBE Peterson, but probably not even him.

    I still think that Maroney has it in him to be a good RB. After spending more time watching our other RBs, I'm actually increasingly thinking that he probably IS a good RB, but is just stuck in an offense where RBs are unable to be much better than he's been. The OL just doesn't run block well enough, and we saw one more datapoint to suggest that when Morris, after getting the start, ran into all the same problems that you guys like to pile on Maroney for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
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