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Is Maroney officially a bust yet?


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Asking for your support
 

Is Maroney officially a Bust Yet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 52 24.6%
  • I'll tell you after this year

    Votes: 123 58.3%
  • No Way

    Votes: 36 17.1%

  • Total voters
    211
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LOL, nice cherrypicked stats. Marion Barber has scored 36 touchdowns in 4 seasons and is particularly strong in goal line and redzone situations. What has Maroney done to match that?

Marion Barber: Career Stats

If you think Maroney is a better back than Barber, there is this wonderful igloo that i'd like to sell you in Alaska.

You're the one who established the 1,000 yard barometer. Not me. I'm just using the standard you proferred. And let's not pretend that Barber was a feature back until last season.

Barber has also been in the league for two years longer than Maroney, and has liabilities that Maroney does not have (i.e. fumbling). All things being equal, I would take Barber, but that's not an indictment of Maroney. Barber's a heck of a player, even though his performance last year wasn't all that great.
 
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Do you realize how utterly ******ed it is to chalk Maroney's success up to the Brady-Moss-Welker spread offense when you're comparing him to Addai, who, you know, clearly had no benefit from playing in a Manning-Wayne-Harrison-Clark offense. I mean, come on.

And that's not even mentioning the Colts OL has been a much better run blocking unit than the Pats OL these past few years.

There is no denying that Addai benefited from playing along side Manning-Wayne and co., just the same way Maroney benefited playing along side Brady and co.. Colts OL has suffered as many if not more injuires than Pats. They were down to 3rd strings and rookies on half of OL line for most of the season (I could be wrong).

You have to admit that Addai has been a more productive back. Besides playing more often, Addai is a much bigger passing threat where Maroney is no existent (# of catches in 2007 and 2008: 66 vs 4).

Thank you for keeping it respectful.;)
 
Jim Brown? Please. I'd have settled for Dillon of 2004 or Forte of 2008. Don't even make a ridiculous comparison to legendary players.
I didn't expect Maroney to be legendary, but at pick #21 he should have played to the level of at least an above average NFL RB who puts up 1,000 yards per year. Instead we got, well, history speaks loudly for itself doesn't it?

I can't believe I'm defending Maroney out here, as I have been pretty critical of him before this thread. I just get honked off when people are jumping all over a guy, calling him a "bust" and whatever.

The bottom line for me is that he hasn't produced the way we would have liked or expected. He's injury prone and dances around rather than running downfield. But, he is still going to be a productive NFL back for the forseeable future.

When we look at the stats for 2006 and 2007 (leaving out his injury year of 2008), his biggest problem is his number of carries:

If you look at the top 32 NFL backs, their median carries were 225 and 255 respectively in 2006 and 2007. Their median yards per carry were 4.2 in each year. During those two years, Maroney had 185 and 175 carries, with yards per carry of 4.5 and 4.3.

So, the legitimate knock on Maroney is that he is injury prone. He's still a solid runner and will give you 10--12 good/very good games a year. He's just going to be limited in that way.

Does that make him a "bust?" I guess that's a matter of how you define the term and also a matter of how he evolves and lasts in the NFL. For me, he's not a "bust." For you and others, he is. So be it. What I think and what you think really don't matter. It's what Belichick and others who evaluate talent in the NFL think that does matter.

I took a closer look at the data and compared the Rushing Production of the top four rushers (excluding the QB) for the 16 AFC teams and the Yards Gained by the Leading Rusher on those teams in 2007, the last year that Maroney was "healthy," at least by his standards. The data show that the production of the Pats Four Rushers was 1,605 yards, vs. a median of 1,635 yards. So, the Pats were below the median, but well within one Standard Deviation (251 yards). This is probably not surprising, given their record-setting Passing Offense that year.

I then looked at the distribution of the Rushing Production (as defined) and found that it very neatly fits a bell curve. However, when you look at the distribution of the Leading Rushers on each team, the data are skewed towards the upper end, drawn there by a few high producers. The Median is 1,091 Yards, but the Standard Deviation is 274 Yards.

The most interesting thing is when you correlate Rushing Production (as defined) with the Yards Gained by the leading rusher. When you do this, you find that the yards gained by the leading rusher statistically only explain 57% of Rushing Production, suggesting that almost half of the factors that go into overall Rushing Production are independent of the yards gained by the leading rusher on the team.

This is based only on 32 data points and I would be very interested to see if it holds true over 32 teams over 10 or so seasons (640 data points) and whether there is any change in this over time. My hypothesis would be that overal Rushing Production has become less and less dependent on the productivity of the Leading Rusher over time.

What does this have to do with our current discussion? In my view, it suggests that it's hard to describe as a bust a solid RB who delivers 800 or so yards a year with an average rush of 4.3--4.5 yards (leaving out the 2008 injury year). He might be a disappointment in terms of what we (all, including myself) were hoping to see from him. But I just don't see how you call the guy a "bust."

Finally, please spare me the rhetoric. Brady deserves to be considered as "legendary" and Moss would be in that category too if he hadn't sleep-walked through a few seasons before he came to the Pats, so saying we might be comparing to a legend at RB is not "ridiculous"...exaggerated I'll grant, but not ridiculous.

And I don't think there's anything magic about the 1,000 yard hurdle in today's NFL. 16 players ran for 1,000 yards or more last year, about half of them on teams with little other offense.
 
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Yes, and here are some other things that have been proven;

1) Maroney - a bust

2) Pam Anderson - busty

3) Obama - a spender

4) Bill Clinton - a lover

5) Anchovies - salty
 
Perhaps you should go back and re-read Deus' list of RB's taken in the first round, and then re-evaluate your statement.

I did (after scrolling through abt 10 pages lol), and overall it's a pretty impressive group. But my point had nothing to do with injuries.

Don't get me wrong--it would be stupid to cut or give away Maroney at this point. I like the speed and kick returning ability he brings to the table and would even say that when healthy he's still our most talented RB.

The point I was trying (evidently poorly) to make is that it's questionable to use a first found pick on a RB (especially if you're reaching) if your intention is to use a tandem RB approach. It becomes more suspect when that RB turns out to be part of a RBBC, even when healthy. I'm sure BB isn't thrilled about having picked Maroney in the first round, but you can't change the past.
 
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Finally, please spare me the rhetoric. Brady deserves to be considered as "legendary" and Moss would be in that category too if he hadn't sleep-walked through a few seasons before he came to the Pats, so saying we might be comparing to a legend at RB is not "ridiculous"...exaggerated I'll grant, but not ridiculous.

It's laughable that you put Maroney in the 'legendary' category along with Brady and Moss when Maroney isn't even a league average RB. Perhaps your semantics have become skewed. What are Brady's qualifications? 3 Superbowl rings, the passing Touchdown record, NFL MVP, arguably one of the top 2 QBs of his generation. Did more with less on offense than many other QBs of his generation. IE compare Patriots 2001 offense with the weapons Peyton Manning had. Randy Moss - current single season receiving TD record holder, twice appeared on record breaking NFL offenses. Only player in NFL history to record 1,200+ receiving yards in his first six seasons. Etc. These guys have very impressive resumes. News flash, it IS a joke when you compare a borderline player like Maroney to a legendary player like Jim Brown. Like I said, I would be more than pleased if Maroney could perform even to the level of Matt Forte circa 2008.


And I don't think there's anything magic about the 1,000 yard hurdle in today's NFL. 16 players ran for 1,000 yards or more last year, about half of them on teams with little other offense.

If there's nothing special about getting to the 1,000 yard barrier, and 16 players did it last year, what does that tell you about Maroney except that he is less than mediocre?

The Maroney's defender club need to understand that this is not necessarily an indictment of Maroney. It is a review based on what he has ACTUALLY done for us compared to what we expect a 1st round pick to be able to do for our team. For all I know Maroney could break out in 2009, rush for 1,200+ yards and prove everybody wrong. But nothing in the past has indicated that he would. Nothing even indicates that he can even be counted on to REMAIN on the field. Therefore BB signed Fred Taylor.

Problem solved. The RB pecking order is now Taylor, Morris, Faulk, Maroney. If Maroney continues to underachieve the Pats are still set at RB for this year at least. If he becomes a serviceable weapon the Pats offense is better off for it. Believe it or not, I don't want to see Maroney fail. IF he succeeds, the Patriots would be stronger for it. But there are legitimate doubts raised about his ability to turn it around because of his past performance or lack thereof.
 
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It's laughable that you put Maroney in the 'legendary' category along with Brady and Moss when Maroney isn't even a league average RB. Perhaps your semantics have become skewed. What are Brady's qualifications? 3 Superbowl rings, the passing Touchdown record, NFL MVP, arguably one of the top 2 QBs of his generation. Did more with less on offense than many other QBs of his generation. IE compare Patriots 2001 offense with the weapons Peyton Manning had. Randy Moss - current single season receiving TD record holder, twice appeared on record breaking NFL offenses. Only player in NFL history to record 1,200+ receiving yards in his first six seasons. Etc. These guys have very impressive resumes. News flash, it IS a joke when you compare a borderline player like Maroney to a legendary player like Jim Brown. Like I said, I would be more than pleased if Maroney could perform even to the level of Matt Forte circa 2008.




If there's nothing special about getting to the 1,000 yard barrier, and 16 players did it last year, what does that tell you about Maroney except that he is less than mediocre?

The Maroney's defender club need to understand that this is not necessarily an indictment of Maroney. It is a review based on what he has ACTUALLY done for us compared to what we expect a 1st round pick to be able to do for our team. For all I know Maroney could break out in 2009, rush for 1,200+ yards and prove everybody wrong. But nothing in the past has indicated that he would. Nothing even indicates that he can even be counted on to REMAIN on the field. Therefore BB signed Fred Taylor.

Problem solved. The RB pecking order is now Taylor, Morris, Faulk, Maroney. If Maroney continues to underachieve the Pats are still set at RB for this year at least. If he becomes a serviceable weapon the Pats offense is better off for it. Believe it or not, I don't want to see Maroney fail. IF he succeeds, the Patriots would be stronger for it. But there are legitimate doubts raised about his ability to turn it around because of his past performance or lack thereof.

I don't disagree with everything you say, but if you could get say a 2nd round draft choice for Maroney right now (just an example) would you do it?
DW Toys
 
If there's nothing special about getting to the 1,000 yard barrier, and 16 players did it last year, what does that tell you about Maroney except that he is less than mediocre?

If you really believe that, you probably need to have your head checked.

Problem solved. The RB pecking order is now Taylor, Morris, Faulk, Maroney.

You know this how?
 
I don't disagree with everything you say, but if you could get say a 2nd round draft choice for Maroney right now (just an example) would you do it?
DW Toys

Absolutely do it! Our RB is set with Taylor, Morris, Faulke, and maybe BJGE. Save some cap space too! Could use some of that money on rookies this year. 7 picks in first 100, that is unheard of. We need players on defense!
 
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I don't disagree with everything you say, but if you could get say a 2nd round draft choice for Maroney right now (just an example) would you do it?
DW Toys

Who in their right mind would give a 2nd round pick for Maroney though? He's not nearly as valuable a commodity as Cassel was.
 
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1) No one is giving us a second for Maroney.
2) Trading Maroney would cost us $725K of cap space.
3) We already will have 7 picks in the top 120; and yes, that is awesome.

Absolutely do it! Our RB is set with Taylor, Morris, Faulke, and maybe BJGE. Save some cap space too! Could use some of that money on rockies this year. That is 7 picks in first 100, that is unheard of. We need players on defense!
 
Who in their right mind would give a 2nd round pick for Maroney though? He's not nearly as valuable a commodity as Cassel was.

I am just saying. Third maybe? Possibility with that thought?
DW Toys
 
1) No one is giving us a second for Maroney.
2) Trading Maroney would cost us $725K of cap space.
3) We already will have 7 picks in the top 120; and yes, that is awesome.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think if he is traded, the other team picks up his contract. And I am understanding his CAP is about $2.25m?
DW Toys
 
funny how people forget Maroney last year when he was healthy where he carried the load end of season into playoffs and was exceptional

injury prone? definitely
bust? no way
 
Yes, and here are some other things that have been proven;

1) Maroney - a bust

2) Pam Anderson - busty

3) Obama - a spender

4) Bill Clinton - a lover

5) Anchovies - salty

What a shocker. :rolleyes: Looks like the jury is in - Maroney will not be a bust.
 
It's laughable that you put Maroney in the 'legendary' category along with Brady and Moss when Maroney isn't even a league average RB. Perhaps your semantics have become skewed.



If there's nothing special about getting to the 1,000 yard barrier, and 16 players did it last year, what does that tell you about Maroney except that he is less than mediocre?

The Maroney's defender club need to understand that this is not necessarily an indictment of Maroney. It is a review based on what he has ACTUALLY done for us compared to what we expect a 1st round pick to be able to do for our team. For all I know Maroney could break out in 2009, rush for 1,200+ yards and prove everybody wrong. But nothing in the past has indicated that he would. Nothing even indicates that he can even be counted on to REMAIN on the field. Therefore BB signed Fred Taylor.

Problem solved. The RB pecking order is now Taylor, Morris, Faulk, Maroney. If Maroney continues to underachieve the Pats are still set at RB for this year at least. If he becomes a serviceable weapon the Pats offense is better off for it. Believe it or not, I don't want to see Maroney fail. IF he succeeds, the Patriots would be stronger for it. But there are legitimate doubts raised about his ability to turn it around because of his past performance or lack thereof.

You didn't read what I said. The whole point was that Maroney clearly does not belong in the Brown category.

I didn't say there's nothing special about 1,000 yards, just that it's not the only or even prime measure of success, given what the stats say and how many teams have performed who happen to have a runner who reaches the magic number.

As for Maroney's stats, the data show that he underperforms in the number of carries he can make, not what he does with the ball when he has it (2006/07, pre injury). He is way below the median when it comes to numbers of carries, but his Yards Per Carry are fine. The legitimate knock on him, as I acknowldged in my post, is that he is injury prone. But that doesn't make him a "bust."

And ultimately, we seem to agree at least in one narrow area. I'm arguing that he's not a "bust" as an RB, but am also granting that he is a disappointment as a 21, whom I have amply criticized in other posts in other threads out here. I'm just saying that calling him a "bust" is off base.

If you want to define "bust" in terms of your (reasonable) disappointment in him as a #21, then fine. I just think that it's not accurate, nor do I think that BB or other talent evaluators in the NFL would agree with you.

Don't call my comments "laughable" if you haven't read them. Save that for some newbie who doesn't know what he's talking about. I presented an argument that was backed up by a pretty detailed statistical analysis of RB's in the NFL. If you disagree, disagree on the facts. Otherwise, save the rhetoric.
 
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BostonSportsRobotCrushHelmet.jpg
 
Well?
DW Toys
Well sir, I believe James Sanders and Laurence Maroney have been particular favorites of yours. Far be it of me to correct your perspective, though I would encourage you to note a slightly more knowledgable personnel man then either of us did re-sign James Sanders to a tidy little contract...and despite your demands for trade, he's shown no moves in that direction with Maroney. As an observer, I tend to think the facts are against you, but hope springs eternal, you may get you wish in another two or three years.
 
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