Is Maroney officially a bust yet?

[Warren94]

Maroney was not the feature back at Minnesota. He did share some of the load. I will give maroney another 2years after that bust city.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maroney was not the feature back at Minnesota. He did share some of the load. I will give maroney another 2years after that bust city.

Maroney was the feature back during his junior year. As much as a player could be a "feature back" when there are over 600 carries to split up.

During Maroney's sophmore year, he split carries with Barber. Same with his Freshman year.

 

[bigfandan]

So, let me get this straight. You penalize Maroney for his YPC going from 4.3 to 4.8 because of the addition of Moss and Welker and then you additionally penalize him because the number of receptions he had dropped from 22 to 4 because of the addition of Moss and Welker.

Seems to me that you can't have it both ways. The fact is that Moss and Welker were the ones who caused the drop in Maroney's receptions. Because they were getting them.

Also, one of the reasons that Maroney's stats "declined" during the 2nd half of 2007 is because he didn't play much. Since he was recovering from a shoulder injury. But, why let facts get in the way.

1. Is it not true (and basic football wisdom) that a great pass offense opens up running lanes? Therefore Moss-Welker led passing attack would create spaces in the 2ndary and help Maroney's yards-per-carry statistics?

2. Are you suggesting because of great wideouts, Pats have now decided to abandon screen plays to RBs? That is why Maroney only had 4 receiptions in 16 games during 2007 and 2008 combined? Does not seem logical the team would give up such an important part of play book. Why would any team decide to only throw to receivers 100% backs 0% of plays, great receivers or not? Didn't Addai get plenty of catches with Wayne/Harrison/Gonzeles? (sorry to bring up Addai again)

3. Are we not talking about team's #1 pick and expectation for a first round pick? If Maroney was drafted in the 4th or 5th round, he won't be a bust. For a 1st, he did not do nearly enough.

Lastly, spare the name calling. Calling others trolls, clowns, idiots wouldn't make you more credible and make others think you are unfit for a mature discussion.

 

[DaBruinz]

1. Is it not true (and basic football wisdom) that a great pass offense opens up running lanes? Therefore Moss-Welker led passing attack would create spaces in the 2ndary and help Maroney's yards-per-carry statistics?

So, you give ALL the credit to Moss and Welker and none to the O-line or Maroney? Makes no sense.

2. Are you suggesting becuase of having great wideouts, pats have now decided to abandon screen play to RBs? That is why Maroney only had 4 receiptions in 2007 and 2008 (granted only 4 games he played) combined? Does not seem logical the team would give up such an important part of play book. Why would any team decide to only throw to receivers 100% backs 0% of plays? Didn't Addai get plent of his catches with Wayne/Harrison/Gonzeles? (sorry to bring up Addai again)

Actually, yes. They abandoned the screen plays to both TEs and to RBs and used them almost exclusively to their WRs. Even Faulk saw the number of screen passes he received go down.

Bringing up another team's offense doesn't do anything for you. McDaniels wasn't the Colts OC. He was the Pats. And it was a decision made by BB, McDaniels and the other offensive coaches. Clearly they felt that getting the ball into the hands of Welker and Moss would be more effective.

3. Are we not talking about team's #1 pick and expectation for a first round pick? If Maroney was drafted in the 4th or 5th round, he won't be a bust. For a 1st, he did not do nearly enough.

Yes, we are talking about a 1st round pick. But the expectations by some, including yourself, tend to be ridiculous. And Your evaluations grab information from hither and yon and are a mish-mash of things that really don't relate.

Lastly, spare the name calling. Calling others trolls, clowns, idiots wouldn't make you more credible and make others think you are unfit for a mature discussion.

Considering you have yet to show you are capable of a mature discussion, I figured I'd talk so you would understand. Calling people like yourself a troll or an idiot is just calling them as I see them. If you don't like it. Change how you post to begin with.

People like yourself always amaze me that you think that you can just spew whatever and think that you don't have to worry about any consequences to what you spew. See, that is the think about the 1st Amendment. It entitles me to voice my opinions about you. If you don't like it, oh well.

 

[bigfandan]

DaBruinz
Actually, yes. They abandoned the screen plays to both TEs and to RBs and used them almost exclusively to their WRs. Even Faulk saw the number of screen passes he received go down.

Check the facts before you talk. The team passed about the same to RBs just not to Maroney. It seemed that in 2006 they really tried to mold him into a receiving threat (26 catches) but abandoned the project in 2007. They have not abandoned the play with other RBs though... see how Faulk's catches went up each year. Like I said, Pats are smart enough to utlize the whole play book. If you think they abandoned the screen play, you don't know your Patriots.

RB receptions:
2006/2007/2008
Kevin Faulk 43/47/58
Maroney's 22/4/0

DaBruinz: Considering you have yet to show you are capable of a mature discussion, I figured I'd talk so you would understand. Calling people like yourself a troll or an idiot is just calling them as I see them. If you don't like it. Change how you post to begin with.
People like yourself always amaze me that you think that you can just spew whatever and think that you don't have to worry about any consequences to what you spew. See, that is the think about the 1st Amendment. It entitles me to voice my opinions about you. If you don't like it, oh well.

It's been interesting to observe how your discussions always turn to personal attacks when you start to lose the logical part of it. Apology accepted.

 

[DW Toys]

So, you give ALL the credit to Moss and Welker and none to the O-line or Maroney? Makes no sense.



Actually, yes. They abandoned the screen plays to both TEs and to RBs and used them almost exclusively to their WRs. Even Faulk saw the number of screen passes he received go down.

Bringing up another team's offense doesn't do anything for you. McDaniels wasn't the Colts OC. He was the Pats. And it was a decision made by BB, McDaniels and the other offensive coaches. Clearly they felt that getting the ball into the hands of Welker and Moss would be more effective.



Yes, we are talking about a 1st round pick. But the expectations by some, including yourself, tend to be ridiculous. And Your evaluations grab information from hither and yon and are a mish-mash of things that really don't relate.



Considering you have yet to show you are capable of a mature discussion, I figured I'd talk so you would understand. Calling people like yourself a troll or an idiot is just calling them as I see them. If you don't like it. Change how you post to begin with.

People like yourself always amaze me that you think that you can just spew whatever and think that you don't have to worry about any consequences to what you spew. See, that is the think about the 1st Amendment. It entitles me to voice my opinions about you. If you don't like it, oh well.

Simon, You are at it again. You use conjecture and hearsay more than anybody on this site, I hope to be right 51% of the time, You say you are right 100% of the time. The man made some valid points. You have nothing to back them up but your baloney and intimidation. You are the bully of this site and I hate to tell you cousin, it's time for agonizing reappraisal. Your comments are mostly your opinion and not backed by facts.

Look Simon, you are a smart guy. Why do you make yourself look like an idiot when you just down everybody? It makes you look silly and immature. Some of these posters make good points. I am wrong many times and I admit it. When a poster tells me why backed by facts, I can agree. You never present anything but your opinions. I disagree with many posters on this site but I respect them unless they use this forum as a weapon.

Like you have said before, you live with mom, wear corduroy pants because you like the noise and when you go out somewhere "almost never cause an issue" ....that was about your quote right? We have had this discussion before. How many times a week did you get beat up in highschool? I'll bet you still have "wedgie rash". See I can say stuff too. What did this accomplish?

Sometimes it pays to listen. He was not all wrong.
DW Toys

 

[RayClay]

I guess Fred Taylor wasn't a made o' glass bust after all.

 

[Water Boy]

Yes. He will not be on the team after this year.

 

[Warren94]

Maroney was the feature back during his junior year. As much as a player could be a "feature back" when there are over 600 carries to split up.

During Maroney's sophmore year, he split carries with Barber. Same with his Freshman year.

There was also Russell the third back in the rotation.

 

[JackBauer]

I dislike Colts and it pains me to write this. But Addai is a more durable runner and much bigger receiving threat. He is all down back. Maroney is not.

The 3-year stat below shows Addai is twice as productive (touches/yards).
Note 50% of Maroney's yards came in his best year, the 2007 season, coincidentally with the GREATEST-PASSING-SEASON-EVER (Brady-Moss-both grabbing TD records). (passing set up the run = inflated stats for Maroney? spread formation =helping a rb's ypc? I thought so)

NFL offical stats for last 3 seasons:
Addai:
Carries / Yards / TDs
642 / 2697 / 27
Maroney:
Carries / Yards / TDs
388 / 1673 / 12 (Note: 185 / 835 from 2007 was assisted greatly by the Brady-to-Moss-TD-SEASON)
Receiptions / yards
Addai 106 / 895
Maroney 26 / 310
Touches / yards
Addai 748 / 3592
Maroney 414 / 1983
1000 yard seasons:
Addai 2
Maroney 0

Last season an injured Addai still outgained Maroney 5:1. BTW, Maroney's YPC dropped to 3.3 last season. He is not showing progress as a runner nor is he improving blocking or receiving skills.

Do you realize how utterly ******ed it is to chalk Maroney's success up to the Brady-Moss-Welker spread offense when you're comparing him to Addai, who, you know, clearly had no benefit from playing in a Manning-Wayne-Harrison-Clark offense. I mean, come on.

And that's not even mentioning the Colts OL has been a much better run blocking unit than the Pats OL these past few years.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I've read a lot of the back and forth here. Lots of emotion from some folks I've respected on this Board for a long time. All over Maroney. Interesting.

Basically, I agree with those who say he's not a "bust" and that it's unlikely he ever will be a "bust."

He is who he is. He's not an every-down, every-game RB, but he's a solid performer who will be around the league with the Pats or another team for many years. He'll give whomever he's with 10--12 good to very good games a year. He works well in tandem with others, but he's also injury prone and he'll never be a straight ahead downfield runner. All of that said, I'm happy he's with the Pats and hope they can hold onto him.

Landing on him for last year is just unfair, because he was playing with injuries that ultimately required surgery. But that doesn't make him the reincarnation of Curtis Martin either. The jury is still out on the Addai comparison since we don't know how the next couple of seasons will play out for a guy who got as much work and took as many hits as Addai in his first seasons.

Where the "busters" have a point is that we all had much higher expectations of Maroney when he was drafted. I know I did and I went through a period where I was really p!$$@d off at him for his dancing and missing games due to injury. Shanahan's comments didn't help, nor did the rumors that the Colts wished they had taken him instead. But, ultimately, that's not fair to Maroney. It's more our own imaginings and wishes...which don't accept him for the talent that he is, including its limitations. On a Offense with Tom Brady and Randy Moss, it's natural to want Jim Brown in the backfield.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think this may be a repetition of some opinions that have been aired already, but let me float this out there:

Okay. We know that the league is moving (with some holdouts) toward at least a platoon, and often the dreaded running back by committee.

We know Maroney can contribute under either of those circumstances.

The question of whether he's a "bust" aside -- the answer looks rather definitional, actually, not absolute -- what are we really reacting against?

I just thought about this. My brain aside, my gut is just unhappy with RBBC and platoons. My gut wants that one unstoppable guy. My gut wants Marshall Faulk in 1999 or Priest Holmes in 2003-4, or Shaun Alexander in 2006, or Ladanian Tomlinson in 06-08, or Adrian Peterson last year. That one guy you can point to (like we can point to Brady) and say "yeah good luck stopping that."

Understanding we have Brady, we'd settle for guys with slightly better numbers than what we came up with: an Addai or a Barber, for example.

But leaving aside those teams that stick with one main guy (Barber is now even 1/2 of a tandem), aren't we all just p.o.'d that the direction of the league means no next Corey Dillon, unless that direction changes, or unless this team rejects that direction?

How is it that right now, we suddenly realize it's too much wear on the tread to give the guy the ball 300 times? Is it the 1-2 year workhorse that turns into a 3.5 yard per carry guy a couple years in? why is the league going this way now, when just a few years ago the RBBC was an admission of weakness at the position?

And isn't this really what we're all p.o.d at?

PFnV

 

[VJCPatriot]

Where the "busters" have a point is that we all had much higher expectations of Maroney when he was drafted. I know I did and I went through a period where I was really p!$$@d off at him for his dancing and missing games due to injury. Shanahan's comments didn't help, nor did the rumors that the Colts wished they had taken him instead. But, ultimately, that's not fair to Maroney. It's more our own imaginings and wishes...which don't accept him for the talent that he is, including its limitations. On a Offense with Tom Brady and Randy Moss, it's natural to want Jim Brown in the backfield.

Jim Brown? Please. I'd have settled for Dillon of 2004 or Forte of 2008. Don't even make a ridiculous comparison to legendary players.
I didn't expect Maroney to be legendary, but at pick #21 he should have played to the level of at least an above average NFL RB who puts up 1,000 yards per year. Instead we got, well, history speaks loudly for itself doesn't it?

And isn't this really what we're all p.o.d at?

PFnV

Not really, no. If I could swap Maroney for Marion Barber III, I'd do it without a moment's hesitation. In the Pats current platoon system, Barber would still be a beast in the redzone and short yardage situations.

 

[brdmaverick]

OK, you asked for judgement of your analysis as a GM in this matter and I will give it you.

I judge your analysis an "F".

The key factor is value and the cap. Maroney is our #4 RB and could be our kick returner. As a #4 back, he is an OK talent even now, better than BJGE who is the other potential #4 RB.

It would COST US $725K of cap money to cut or trade Maroney. To be off by over $3M in the analysis of the cap on one player, when the information is readily available, causes the grade of "F"

Inadvertantly you are making a strong case that Maroney is a BUST.

If you project Maroney as the #4 RB on the team depth chart, a guy who was drafted in the first round, then WITHOUT A DOUBT HE IS A BUST.

 

[JackBauer]

Jim Brown? Please. I'd have settled for Dillon of 2004 or Forte of 2008. Don't even make a ridiculous comparison to legendary players.
I didn't expect Maroney to be legendary, but at pick #21 he should have played to the level of at least an above average NFL RB who puts up 1,000 yards per year. Instead we got, well, history speaks loudly for itself doesn't it?

Not really, no. If I could swap Maroney for Marion Barber III, I'd do it without a moment's hesitation. In the Pats current platoon system, Barber would still be a beast in the redzone and short yardage situations.

So you're going to criticize Maroney for never having a 1,000 yard season, and advocate swapping him for Barber, who averaged... 3.7 YPC last year and has never had a 1,000 yard season.

At least you're consistent.

 

[PATRIOT64]

This whole conversation is a ******ed joke

IF Maroney was on the Colts,Jets or any other rival of the Pats, the guys in here would be making fun and ridiculing that particular team for taking a guy in the first round that simply does not have what it takes and probably never will BUT because he is on the Pats he is worthy of another year...yeah,most likely another year of injury

While we are at it in homerville,why don't we say Chad Jackson was not a bust but just an unfortunate 'cut' because of the 'enormous' talent we had at WR

The excuses END in 2009 for Mr. dancin' in the backfield Maroney

Lets face it...BB and Pioli absolutely SUCKED at picking the players from the 2006 draft - luckily the team is still in good shape with the very good draft years prior to that,The last 3 years have been mediocre in the draft with the exception of Gostkowski,Mayo and maybe another one or two

 

[JMarr]

How is it that right now, we suddenly realize it's too much wear on the tread to give the guy the ball 300 times? Is it the 1-2 year workhorse that turns into a 3.5 yard per carry guy a couple years in? why is the league going this way now, when just a few years ago the RBBC was an admission of weakness at the position?

And isn't this really what we're all p.o.d at?

PFnV

It's not unreasonable to be PO'd at using a first round pick on a RBBC guy.

 

[JackBauer]

It's not unreasonable to be PO'd at using a first round pick on a RBBC guy.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read Deus' list of RB's taken in the first round, and then re-evaluate your statement.

 

[VJCPatriot]

So you're going to criticize Maroney for never having a 1,000 yard season, and advocate swapping him for Barber, who averaged... 3.7 YPC last year and has never had a 1,000 yard season.

At least you're consistent.

LOL, nice cherrypicked stats. Marion Barber has scored 36 touchdowns in 4 seasons and is particularly strong in goal line and redzone situations. What has Maroney done to match that?

Marion Barber: Career Stats

If you think Maroney is a better back than Barber, there is this wonderful igloo that i'd like to sell you in Alaska.

 

[Deus Irae]

This whole conversation is a ******ed joke

IF Maroney was on the Colts,Jets or any other rival of the Pats, the guys in here would be making fun and ridiculing that particular team for taking a guy in the first round that simply does not have what it takes and probably never will BUT because he is on the Pats he is worthy of another year...yeah,most likely another year of injury

While we are at it in homerville,why don't we say Chad Jackson was not a bust but just an unfortunate 'cut' because of the 'enormous' talent we had at WR

The excuses END in 2009 for Mr. dancin' in the backfield Maroney

Lets face it...BB and Pioli absolutely SUCKED picking players in the 2006 draft - luckily the team is still in good shape with the very good draft years prior to that,The last 3 years have been mediocre in the draft with the exception of Gostkowski,Mayo and maybe another one or two

Yes, the draft has been mediocre if you just ignore the defensive rookie of the year, the 1st team All Pro kicker and "maybe another one or two", and ignore the draft moves that netted Welker and Moss. Yup..... just ignore all that stuff and the drafts have been mediocre.