Is Josh McDaniels the luckiest man in the NFL?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by goheels22002, Jun 8, 2012.

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  1. goheels22002

    goheels22002 Supporter Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    Looking at the 2012-13 offense and the depth and talent at every position, Josh McDaniels should be on his knees in church someplace thanking the Almighty for what he's been handed.

    The Offensive Line coached by Dante Scarnecchia is going to be great. The addition of Bo Scaife at TE makes that the deepest pass catching TE corps in the NFL, and the WR group is arguably the best in the AFC with top-tier players inside and outside. The RBs have size, speed and depth. And Tom Brady.

    What I like about this team is the blocking for Brady at TE and RB/FB to keep him upright and healthy. The additions of the veteran fullbacks and Fells/Scaife - all proven blockers - makes it a lot easier to contemplate handling excellent pass rushing teams like the Giants.

    Josh McDaniels is the big winner in this after his train wreck in Denver. He was given a second chance in St. Louis without the risk of screwing up the personnel decisions and re-gained his footing. Now, a third chance with the possibility of being in the succession discussion is unbelievable.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    The Patriots were lucky that McDaniels came free with O'Brien leaving. Lucky or not, Josh is a top O.C. and I hate to think what we might have had for an O.C. had he not been available. That said, sure, ANY O.C. would love to have this to work with. Last year's offense largely returning and adding Lloyd and Gaffney - are you kidding me ?
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    The core of the offense is also very close to being locked up for the next 3 years, which would perhaps be unprecedented in the current NFL era:

    Skill Players:

    QB: Brady is signed through 2015, and Mallett through 2014
    RB: Ridley and Vereen are signed through 2014
    WR: Lloyd is signed through 2014 and Gaffney through 2013. I suspect that the Pats could easily extend Gaffney another year if they so desired. I also suspect that if the Pats are able to lock up Gronk that it will make it much easier for them to come to terms with Wes Welker on a contract extension. Matt Slater is also signed through 2014, though he's mainly a STer.
    TE: Fells is signed through 2014. Gronk and Hernandez are currently signed through 2013, but a Gronk contract extension would not only lock him up long term but also allow the Pats to use the franchise tag on AHern if necessarily, effectively tying him up through at least 2014.

    Offensive Line:

    OT: Nate Solder is signed through 2014 with an option for 2015. Marcus Cannon is signed through 2014. Sebastian Vollmer is in a contract year, and is one of the main question marks.
    OG/C: Logan Mankins is signed through 2016 and Dan Connolly through 2014.

    Depth at OL and long term development at WR are question marks, but if Gronk can be extended and Vollmer's long term status addressed the Pats would be in a position to essentially have all of the key players on offense tied up through at least 2014.

    Josh McD is in the catbird seat.
  4. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #24 Jersey

    Mutually beneficial situation. Josh gets handed a great O with a team he's familiar with and the Pats get a great coordinator who's familiar with the team. I think we should all be happy that there's little risk of this offense being held back by poor coaching.
  5. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Regardless, there's going to be tremendous pressure on McDaniels and the offense because of this. He may not have Randy Moss, but he still has four of the best pass catchers in the NFL, all of whom will be on the field at the same time.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Josh McD has a potentially better set of offensive weapons than he had in 2007:

    - Gronk, AHern, Fells >>> Watson, Thomas, Brady. Not in the same universe.
    - 2012 Welker >= 2007 Welker
    - 2012 Gaffney about = 2007 Gaffney
    - 2012 Stallworth a bit < 2007 Stallworth
    - 2012 Branch > 2007 Kelly Washington
    - Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead vs Maroney, Morris, Faulk - too early to call, but there is potential for this group to be better

    That leaves Randy Moss vs. Brandon Lloyd. Moss was one of the greatest WRs of all time in 2007 and had one of the greatest years ever. Lloyd won't replicate that. But he won't need to, and I suspect he will be extremely effective in his role.

    Obviously, the 2012 crew has to perform on the field. The 2007 group was epic. But the depth and diversity are better this year, and the overall talent is at least comparable. Gronk is every bit the impact player that Moss was in 2007.
  7. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Plus, and this may lead to a slight disagreement on one point, the 2007 offense was very 'new' to the NFL. It took teams almost a full season to catch up to it. Now they have a pretty good idea of what to expect.

    I'm not taking anything away from him at all, but in some ways I believe 2007 Welker has a slight advantage over 2012 Welker, partially because of the presence of Moss and partially because of his unique role in a 'new' offense.
  8. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal


    I think your point is well taken, but given the potential we have at the TE, it gives us one huge advantage that we did not have in 2007. The pressure of having Gronk, Ahern (not to mention Fells & Bo) in formations with Lloyd, Gaffney, Welker, Branch, Stallworth or any combination thereof will be almost indefensible for most teams. We had great skill players in 2007, everywhere but at TE. Basically add just about that same level of skill and add the best TE tandem in the game, and look out.

    This doesn't even mention our RB's two of whom (Vareen or Addai) can easily come out of the backfield and catch passes. Hell, in most cases, you'd be able to telegraph the play to the defense in advance and the defense still would not be able to defend it. If the line protects Brady at all, there are not many defenses that will be able to defend the multitude of formations we now have in the short, intermediate and long routes we can put up.

    Should be fun to watch.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  9. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan In the Starting Line-Up

    A lot to be said for this and I can certainly agree. Where 2012 is perhaps the most dangerous is, you can take away 1 threat and maybe 2 (which the 2007 offense only had 2), but this team while the ceiling isn't as high has a much higher median.

    Take away 2 and there are 2 other guys who can do plenty of damage. the big question will be the o line keeping pressure off Brady at critical times (playoffs where defenders are given a little more leeway to just let them play).
  10. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker Supporter Supporter

    My ONLY concern for this offense is the offensive line. Possibly without Vollmer, Mankins and Waters, definitely without Matt Light. Will Brady be able to stay upright long enough to even pass to all of his weapons ?, Will the line be able to open up holes for our young inexperienced RB's ? This is a major concern of mine. All the weapons in the world mean nothing if our QB is on his back all game.

    That being said, what a stroke of genius by Belichick to draft 2 monstrous OL in the 2011 draft, almost foreseeing the need in 2012. Hopefully Solder and Cannon are up for the challenge, as well as Gallery. Keep Brady upright and open holes for our young RB's, and the sky is the limit for this offense.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2012
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I think that the newness of the 2007 offense was a significant factor in its success. Teams were caught by surprise. The 2007 offense tailed off significantly in the second half of the year after teams started to adjust.

    Gronk is in my mind every bit the unique offensive weapon that Randy Moss was in 2007. Welker, Gaffney and Stallworth are constants - they're all older, but Welker and Gaffney are coming off their best statistical seasons last year. Hernandez adds a dimension that the 2007 Pats never had. And Fells, Branch and Edelman add significantly more depth and a variety of options. And all of that ignores the potential role of the RBs in the offense, which could take things to an entirely different level.

    It's all potential at this point of the pre-season, but the potential is off the charts.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    And I completely ignored Lloyd in the above discussion. I'd put him in the Hernandez class in terms of his potential impact on the offense.
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Well stated. Although the 2007 team had more than 2 threats, the general point is certainly valid.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  14. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #12 Jersey

    Regarding whether McDaniels is make your own luck.

    Sure, he's coming to a team with Brady, Gronkandez, Scarneccia and Welker. But half the FA additions joined the team to play for him, in particular Lloyd, Gaffney, Fells.

    The franchise has assets, but he's not coming in empty-handed.
  15. eom

    eom In the Starting Line-Up

    I would say, to be fair to josh, he pretty much made his own luck.

    edit: aaaaaggghhh.....too slow
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  16. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    I absolutely agree with all of this.

    The problem (as we all saw) with having your TEs as the focal point of the offense, along with a slot WR and an aging split end, is that everyone is playing within the same general space on a majority of snaps.

    Lloyd and Gaffney should be very adept at taking over the intermediate part of the field this year and giving those guys some space to work with. Surely they'll get more defensive respect than Deion and Tiquan.
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    I'd say it's appropriate to say he's got to be one of the happiest men in the NFL, for sure.
  18. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    only the beginning of summer but can't wait for pats football
    they are easily my favorite team out of the four boston teams
  19. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    Great post!

    1) Hernandez can be presumed to be franchised in 2014, so is a non-issue.

    2) Welker (2012) is an issue.

    3) Vollmer (2012) is an issue.

    4) We have Koppen and/or Wendell and McDonald though 2013. We will likely need a center or a guard.


  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I'm hoping that #2 will get addressed now that Gronk is signed. And I suspect that one of McDonald/Wendell will emerge and get extended. We will likely need at least one more interior lineman, but it's a very manageable situation.
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