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Is it time to call Brandon Lloyd yet ?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BB4PRez, Jun 12, 2013.

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  1. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez Rookie

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    Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce are nursing injuries that are keeping them off the field this week. I understand Lloyd comes with some baggage and seems to fall down quickly after making many catches. But, Lloyd showed last year that he usually knows where to go, something many widouts have never picked up in this offense. Also, while he did not get the seperation I hoped to see on one on one coverage, he caught most of the balls thrown his way.

    If the two drafted reciever rookies were on the field I can understand getting them snaps now to find out if they have what it takes. However, with neither Dobson or Boyce taking snaps this week the chances of them picking up the offense fully for this season goes down. At what time do you pull the trigger and take Lloyd back even though you know he is not the long term answer? Lloyd has been on the street for awhile and I have to think that they could get him back for much less now than he was going to be paid before he was cut.

    I am not sure what the answer is, but if I am the Pats I am thinking about it.
  2. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Easy answer is no.
  3. Bruins29

    Bruins29 Rookie

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    Well, its just one more little itty bitty day and then everyone is off until July 18 (rookies). Maybe some of them will heal up by then?

    Full camp isnt until July 25. If we have the walking wounded WR corp I am sure BB will so what he has to do and that includes "thinking" about BL.
  4. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    I say we keep the youth movement going. Might be some growing pains at first but it's a long season and we have Brady to "motivate" these guys.
  5. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    12-step recovering BL fan here, as Tebow is my witness: with BB NEVER say Never, but I do say--- NO!
  6. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    No
    Just no
    I was for signing Lloyd last year and didn't trash him during the 2012 season but on retrospect, the team needs someone with more upside and less baggage
    No
  7. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez Rookie

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    I agree with you on the upside comment and I am hoping for more out of the position. As much as the money I think the capped ceiling is the reason Lloyd was let go. I don't think the head coach is happy that there seems to be more recievers rehabbing on the sideline than playing this week. I would be surprised if we don't see some turneover if only to light a few fires. I like Lloyd better than Gaffney, Collie or any of the other guys I am aware of who are out there. If they could get him on a good contract say two years with nothing guarenteed ;) I am much more open then you.
  8. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Apparently the new #85 is tearing it up anyway.
  9. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Lloyd grabbed the phone and immediately fell to the ground
  10. chasa

    chasa Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    the night is always darkest before the dawn.

    Let the kids adapt for more then a month before we start calling in old players
  11. FirstAndGoal

    FirstAndGoal Rookie

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    I hear TO is available:bricks:
  12. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez Rookie

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    I have no problem with adapting and growing pains - but the kids need to know "you can't make the club from the tub..." I don't think that message can come to early.

    For those compairing Lloyd to TO (and I expect in the future Moss). Lloyd played in all 16 games last year and had 74 receptions for 911 yards. In other words there is no comparison between those players and Lloyd. I am not saying Lloyd doesn't have faults, but he was a productive player last season. Again if the price is right (and with Condon as the agent there is a good chance the price is not right) he seems better than the other available options.
  13. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Yes, they should call him. Lloyd is a vet who also knows the system, who accounted for over 900 yds and dozens of first downs last season, there is almost 0 chance the rookies would be more productive then him.

    The guy is apparently a bit of a flake but they were able to get through the season with him, they'd likely be better with him than without.
  14. Ive_Killed_People

    Ive_Killed_People Rookie

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    Here we go.........

    Future thread prediction:

    With Gronk,AHern,Amendola,Boyce, and Dobson likely starting the season on PUP what does our Depth chart look like?

    Buncha hand wringing chicken littles
  15. Pats0204

    Pats0204 Rookie

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    Absolutely not.
  16. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    What other receivers available are realistically going to be more productive then Lloyd?
  17. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    That was an impressive mix of cliche, overused quote, and completely over the top dramatics.

    No, Lloyd is not going to come back unless Amendola goes down for the season.
  18. serifyn

    serifyn Rookie

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    That ship has sailed.
  19. NEPettyOfficer72

    NEPettyOfficer72 Rookie

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    This is stupid and it seems like once again, people just don't get it. Yes, the man got 900 yards last year, so what? He didn't come in and provide for us like what we thought he would and should have. Numbers in production to does equal clutch and winning games. Thank you David Givens for those tough catches without the great numbers! We didn't ask Brandon Lloyd to come in and be Randy Moss, but we did ask him to come in and be a presence that would at least threaten the other side of the field opposite of Wes Welker and down deep and he didn't do so. He never gave any effort after the catch UNLESS it was open field in front of him, made more effort on easier passes to catch then he had to and never gave teams a reason to respect us deep. So opposing defenses clogged the middle of the field and beat us because of it. And he never really looked like he completely picked the system up. People want to criticize Bill for the FA and draft? How many rings has he won? How many super-bowl appearances has he been to? What was his record when Tom went down in 2008? How many Conference Championship games have he won and appeared in? How many star receivers helped us win those Championships? (Moss and Welker were stars but we didn't win it all). Remember, when we brought in David Patten from Cleveland back in 2000 I believe, not having the same attributes, accolades and bragging rights that Brandon Lloyd had coming in, but has done more and worked better with Tom and our system then Lloyd certainly has. So how would we know what Donald Jones or Michael Jenkins could bring? Or what about Bill drafting David Givens and Deion Branch in 2002 and him being criticized for not drafting Ashlie Lelie and Donte Stallworth and Javon Walker.. popular picks that year, but then David and Deion contribute immediately, helping the team win two super-bowls the following year and year after that. They were a perfect fit for the offensive system, philosophy and Tom. So why bring back Brandon Lloyd? And what is the deal with not giving these kids a chance?

    - Aaron Dobson - 6'3, over 200lbs can run crisp routes, good technique, has very good speed for his size, great reach, work ethic, athletic ability, and hands of gold. Not only that but he played in a complex college offensive system and is a smart player that can pick up the offensive system in NE. And he is from Marshall! lol hasn't failed us yet .. Moss, Troy Brown. He gives us more and offers more then Lloyd and I believe the kids wants it more, wants to play in the NFL at a high level. Those are the dangerous ones, the young, talented and hungry.

    - Josh Boyce - Has nice size, speed, quickness, elusiveness, tough to bring down also good with the routes, solid hands and played in a complex collegiate offense as well. He is also versatile, running short, intermediate routes or deep. We can line him up any where on the field. When is the last time we've had that?

    And you still have slot ace Danny Amendola who is just such a great football player all around when he is healthy. He made Sam Bradford look soo good at times last season which is why teams were bidding for him once he became a FA. And did I forget we still have Aaron Hernandez? Another elite receiving talent whether it be WR or TE...

    So instead of opposing defenses lining up to stop Wes in the slot, and shut down Hernandez because Brandon Lloyd was none existent and didn't provide much of a threat, they now have to worry about a younger faster and more explosive Danny Amendola who can not only line up in slot but beat them deep, Aaron Dobson who's a young, big athletic kid who can run down field and use his size to also dig underneath and intermediate routes and jack of trades Josh Boyce who they don't know what he is going to do because he can do it all. We are younger, faster, stronger, more athletic at the position now and deeper then last year with a wider variety of flavors and threats.. more for defenses to defend. And we have coach Brian Daboll back to add additional tutoring from McDaniels, Brady, and Bellicheck.
  20. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no problem is Belichick chooses to bring in Llyod at some point for insurance/depth, but I don't think they'd be able to agree on his value myself.

    I'd see Llyod as nothing better than a good option for WR3 at best, so that's where it gets tricky. Keep in mind our WR3 last season had a total of 21 catches. Unless Llyod is willing to take something around 1 million dollars (and I doubt he is at this point), I don't know if we have as much of a need for him as some here think.

    After all, Llyod was really nothing more than an upgrade to the possession receiver role filled by Deion Branch in 2011 when he had 50 receptions. The major difference was that Llyod caught another 20 or so balls last year because he had 130 overall targets.

    Would I be happy to see Llyod signed as a depth guy in a more limited role? Sure. I'd love to see him as a replacement for what Branch has been the past couple of yrs. My guess is that he's looking for something more however.
  21. Pats0204

    Pats0204 Rookie

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    Laurent Robinson
    Steve Breaston
    Randy Moss
    Braylon Edwards
    Deion Branch
    Chaz Schilens
    Early Doucet
    Brandon Stokley
    Austin Collie
    Derek Hagan
    Chad Johnson
    Jabar Gaffney
    Roscoe Parrish (PR)
    Brandon Banks (KR/PR)
    Mike Sims-Walker
    Sammie Stroughter
    Jason Hill
    Ruvell Martin
    Patrick Turner
    Seyi Ajirotutu
    Greg Camarillo (PR)
    Legedu Naanee
    Adrian Arrington
    Michael Clayton
    Demetrius Williams
    Maurice Stovall (TE)
    Jerheme Urban
    Jaymar Johnson
    Quan Cosby (PR/KR)
    Jarett Dilliard
    Naaman Roosevelt
    Lance Long
    Joe Hastings

    Kidding............kinda.
  22. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No other receivers available at this specific moment are likely to see 130 targets from Tom Brady if/when we'd sign them, but that can obviously change at any given moment. That's the stat that I look at the most--the 130 targets. For all we know, there may be someone on the roster now who can produce 72 catches if they're thrown at 130 times, but I assume that you're talking about a player from another team or free agent.

    The main problem is that they'd likely have to have had at least some kind of experience in a system that is equal to ours, especially since we'd be looking at roster cuts/camp casualties.

    Common sense tells us that there probably aren't going to be many receivers available who fit that criteria and that's why we continue to hear of names such as Deion Branch, Donte Stallworth, and Jabar Gaffney throughout the summer and as the season approaches. It isn't realistic to expect another player who's been cut in August to come here and produce very much.
  23. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez Rookie

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    I can agree on with this. I expect the money will be the issue. Although to me part of the Patriot Way is the Pats can pay match other teams for a guy in this range of ability. It was widely reported that the Pats tried to get Lloyd to take a pay cut before cutting him. Lloyd is an upgrade to what they have right now. I hope the young guys will pass him, but there is no guarantee they will and they certainly won't if they don't get on the field.
  24. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Will Boyce and Dobson realistically be more productive than Lloyd would be? I don't care that he wasn't what we wanted him to be, he is the best option at the moment.

    It usually takes receivers a few years to adapt to the NFL game, and the Pats offense is more difficult to pick up than most teams, the idea that Dobson and Boyce are going to be more productive than Lloyd runs contrary to previous experience the Pats have had with rookie receivers.
  25. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Yes, which means Lloyd will likely be more productive, and that's what gives us the best chance of winning. People crap on Lloyd because he goes down so easily but they also bemoan the fact that Gronk, who never goes down easily, is often hurt. You can't have it both ways, Lloyd played every game last season and he knows the system, I doubt many FA receivers can say that, and the rookies certainly can't.
  26. NEPettyOfficer72

    NEPettyOfficer72 Rookie

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    Lloyd our best option? What did he do for us last post season vs the Ravens when Wes wasn't getting open? And if he knows the system, then it doesn't show that much. He may know the system but not quiet at the level that he should. And its not about having it both ways, but guys like Troy Brown and David Givens, and even Branch in his prime made the tough catches over the middle when they had to, during a time where defensive backs could abuse you and knock your head off and get away with it. And its not like they had to make those catches all of the time, maybe 3 or 4 every 6 games or so. But in the playoffs against the best defenses, those guys showed up and performed.. none were legitimate superstars. But they weren't afraid to get physical or get dirty.... And people act like a rookie or FA cannot come in and pick up the system, like its impossible. Then what did Randy Moss and Wes Welker do in 2007? What did Branch do in 2002? And just a year later? Julian Edelman's rookie year when he replaced the injured Wes? He did pretty good that year, no problem.. excuses. Then people are worried but yet we have the luxury of also having elite talent such as Aaron Hernandez, and receiving backs like Shane Vereen or good receiving TE that's really a starter in Jake Ballard as a backup? That's a blessing... and lets kick Michael Jenkins to the curb to, after all he has done nothing but develop experience, survive the league with a solid career and perform above average with below average quarterbacks...
  27. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    - I don't care that Lloyd doesn't know the system as much as you think he should, he knows it better than any rookie will.

    - Welker and Moss were both seasoned vets when they joined in 2007, something the rookies aren't.

    - If Jenkins can beat out Lloyd in camp then I'm all for him getting the job but if Lloyd is as bad as you say why would I want Jenkins if he can't beat out Lloyd?
  28. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He caught 7 passes.


    You do realize Lloyd had more catches and yards last year than Deion Branch had in all but 1 season right? More of both than Givens ever had in a season? More than double what Edelman had in his best season?
    More than Jenkins has ever had.
    Understand that. Lloyds 2012 is Jenkins career year.



    I would want to see Jenkins beat out the guy who just had a better season than Jenkins has ever had in his life, on the field, not in your post.

    If you thought Lloyd was terrible, imagine what you will be saying about Jenkins.
  29. NEPettyOfficer72

    NEPettyOfficer72 Rookie

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    1) Why did Bill let Lloyd walk?

    2) Amendola has been in the league as long as Wes has back in 2007

    3) I left out that even Reche Caldwell picked up the system back in 2006

    4) Deion Branch was drafted in 2002, picked up the system just fine.. begin to make big contributions just the following season.

    5) Lloyd may know it better then the rookies, but that doesn't mean he can perform and translate it on the field better, and that doesn't mean he'll make a bigger impact either, and it also doesn't mean that they can't pick it up either at the same speed or a lot faster then what he did..

    6) Last but not least, I didn't say he was bad but underachieved. What happened with 2010? When he blossomed under a worst quarterback but the same system right? Wasn't McDaniels with him both in Denver AND STL? :eek:
  30. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Maybe a Lloyd-free receiving group would be better, maybe not.
    I can envision the passing offense changing from Welker-centric to more varied.
    With Gronk and Hernandez as walking mismatches it is not unrealistic that they could catch 200 passes between them. That will allow Amendola to fit in somewhere between the type of routes Welker excelled at and more outside routes, slants and deeper incuts. The other group of outside WRs can fill a role or share one that complements that 3 pronged focal point that replaced the Welker based scheme.
    I could see Lloyd as better or left out in that change.
    I'd rather see him here competing for the role than behind Jenkins, Jones, Hawkins by default.
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